Is high housing price and inflation a big deterrent for relocation now? (Dallas: for sale, real estate market)

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by Lz_2022

I did say “almost”. One of the college kids that worked for me finally got his degree and an offer for 115+ bonus, he’s got some intern experience but I’m fairly sure it would be considered a junior role. Bottom line is that 130 isn’t some astronomical number anymore.

As a software developer myself, I'm not seeing anywhere near that. That does not appear to be the norm. There are considerable variations. It depends a lot on the responsibilities and technologies and the company, but what I'm seeing entry level is closer to 60k, and mid level starts around 90k for a smaller company. However, it's not really worth arguing over. The question is whether housing price increases are going to hurt sales, and they very clearly are not.

It is going to take these locations becoming less desirable and, for new construction, people not putting up with the sales tactics.

I stand by my assertion that whether one has the money or not, this is not the time, place, or way to be buying a house. Normal people already in the metro would stay in their rental rather than go through the processes now and be treated like garbage to live somewhere that really is going to be even more expensive in a location that probably isn't any better. I actually see some builders starting at $700K next to the Melissa dump, and it's an inventory-only wait list.

[Lz_2022]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

As a software developer myself, I'm not seeing anywhere near that. That does not appear to be the norm. There are considerable variations. It depends a lot on the responsibilities and technologies and the company, but what I'm seeing entry level is closer to 60k, and mid level starts around 90k for a smaller company. However, it's not really worth arguing over. The question is whether housing price increases are going to hurt sales, and they very clearly are not.

It is going to take these locations becoming less desirable and, for new construction, people not putting up with the sales tactics.

I stand by my assertion that whether one has the money or not, this is not the time, place, or way to be buying a house. Normal people already in the metro would stay in their rental rather than go through the processes now and be treated like garbage to live somewhere that really is going to be even more expensive in a location that probably isn't any better. I actually see some builders starting at $700K next to the Melissa dump, and it's an inventory-only wait list.

Rental prices are shooting up as well though. The “sales tactics” you’re referring to are really just the builders doing what builders do. They want a serious buyer with maximum profit.

[Kenro911]

Well the whole situation is rather interesting, the market in last 3 months especially in northern suburbs has made even more jumps. I think Frisco Median Sale home is approaching 800K depending on which website you look for data. One website puts it up at 860K - with November 2021 being at 650K so a 200K jump in couple of months.

I think it may take years to really start breaking down, a generation of new home buyers that is over-stretched and unable to have much disposable income may echo on the whole economy in the future. So far it seems the balancing act works because majority of people bought prior to the market craze.

My wonder and question is how will north suburbs fill jobs on the whole spectrum especially in service industry. Cars/Tolls/Gas/Rent are all super expensive these days. Where is the average worker for Mi Cocina from Frisco will come? If average used car price is 26K (necessity in DFW metro for work) and Frisco rentals are out of control as well. If Frisco Median house continues on current pace and gets to 1.3M next year for example (for what used to be a 500K home). How many more people from IT sector etc will just move elsewhere or stay in California/NYC for example.

House taxes in Frisco and other north suburbs are getting very close to %3 annually. By the time you pay your mortgage in 30 years, you would have bought 3 houses. One for yourself, One for Bank and Other for The county. I will be eagerly awaiting to see what Frisco median household income has become, my friends are telling me that it has at least doubled from the 2019 127K amount.

[TheOverdog]

Where is the average worker for Mi Cocina from Frisco will come?

These people already generally commute in from Denton county or from points both south and north.

How many more people from IT sector etc will just move elsewhere or stay in California/NYC for example.

This implies that prices in NYC and CA aren't rising, or are rising at a slower rate than Texas. That is debatable, but per the link Texas home price increases are in-line with much of the US, not an outlier.

https://www.corelogic.com/intelligen...rice-insights/

[Kenro911]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

These people already generally commute in from Denton county or from points both south and north.




This implies that prices in NYC and CA aren't rising, or are rising at a slower rate than Texas. That is debatable, but per the link Texas home price increases are in-line with much of the US, not an outlier.

https://www.corelogic.com/intelligen...rice-insights/

I think you’re missing the point. I was talking about northern suburbs specifically like Frisco, Celina, Prosper. What has texas as state data have anything to do with this?

The whole commuting thing, once again. Average used car price is at $26K. Car insurance is one of highest in the nation, gas prices are going up. Tolls are very expensive. Traffic is awful. Who is going to commute from Oklahoma or Denton more than hour one way trip for $10 an hour job? Just curious.

Secondly, whether it was you or someone else said that a lot of people 30% on east and west coast have income above 130K (household). I can assure you, with this ‘high income’ you will struggle to afford a median home in Frisco which now sits at over 800K.

Quite frankly, with 130K household you should not be looking for anything above 400K unless you have huge downpayment. 130K is peanuts in northern suburbs these days by the time you pay for mortgage and cars. A car alone will eat up $1000 per month each easily between insurance, note, gas, maintenance and you need two of those at least.

130K is only 7K or so take home after taxes and responsible 401K contribuyion. The taxes and home insurance/maintanance/bills on median 800K frisco home would eat up almost 2K a month.

[75214Dad]

Are restaurant jobs harder to staff in Frisco? Genuinely curious. I don’t know if the percent of workers using public transit makes a difference anymore.

Frisco is home to people in the 10-25% income bracket. It will continue to be so in the near future and prices will move accordingly. $1.3M by next year seems unlikely, though.

[Kenro911]

Originally Posted by 75214Dad

Are restaurant jobs harder to staff in Frisco? Genuinely curious. I don’t know if the percent of workers using public transit makes a difference anymore.

Frisco is home to people in the 10-25% income bracket. It will continue to be so in the near future and prices will move accordingly. $1.3M by next year seems unlikely, though.

Well I do see a lot of postings and there are times places like Taco Bell don't have open dining room because of shortages.

The whole staffing issue might take some time to hit as people are forced out further away from Frisco and are having to get new cars due to rent costs and old cheap cars dying out mechanically. Which will make traffic even worse and people again will think twice about driving 2HR one way for $10 job.

I am waiting for Frisco income eagerly not because of this but I'm just curious if it still remains around 130K household income - how will people afford to upkeep their 800K homes that used to be 400K 5 or so years ago.

Like I said, if its still in region of 130K household - even maintaining that home will become a problem considering its own outright. Once again, 130K is about $7K take home net after responsible contributions. Taxes in Frisco/Celina/Prosper are getting very close to %3 annually so your tax bill will hit very close to $2K per month. Electricity and Gas bills have gone up and so has home insurance, that's easily another $600 per month add 2 cars at $1000 a pop all in and you really starting to live month to month on 130K salary with home owned outright. You still have other expenses like paying for your kids tuitions (as 130K will get you no assistance) and those nice medical insurances deductibles and copays which are growing like mushrooms year on year.

You can forget home ownership if you actually need to pay principal and interest on that puny 130K salary in northern suburbs.

[hanex1]

Originally Posted by Kenro911

House taxes in Frisco and other north suburbs are getting very close to %3 annually. By the time you pay your mortgage in 30 years, you would have bought 3 houses. One for yourself, One for Bank and Other for The county. I will be eagerly awaiting to see what Frisco median household income has become, my friends are telling me that it has at least doubled from the 2019 127K amount.

Property taxes in Frisco (assuming FISD, Collin County) are ~2%, even dipped below 2% this year to 1.9XXX%.

Whereas in Prosper OTOH, it is 2.5% to 2.7% depending on the subdivision with PID or MUD etc.

Not sure where you got 3% from.

[DFWGuy422]

Originally Posted by Kenro911

Secondly, whether it was you or someone else said that a lot of people 30% on east and west coast have income above 130K (household). I can assure you, with this ‘high income’ you will struggle to afford a median home in Frisco which now sits at over 800K.

Quite frankly, with 130K household you should not be looking for anything above 400K unless you have huge downpayment. 130K is peanuts in northern suburbs these days by the time you pay for mortgage and cars. A car alone will eat up $1000 per month each easily between insurance, note, gas, maintenance and you need two of those at least.

130K is only 7K or so take home after taxes and responsible 401K contribuyion. The taxes and home insurance/maintanance/bills on median 800K frisco home would eat up almost 2K a month.

It’s probably the upper end of that 30% moving in — double that 130k and above. If they bought their house in CA/NY/NJ/CT, that equity will probably go pretty far as well

[Kenro911]

Originally Posted by DFWGuy422

It’s probably the upper end of that 30% moving in — double that 130k and above. If they bought their house in CA/NY/NJ/CT, that equity will probably go pretty far as well

I don't doubt that. My concern is that considering raising prices and if that median household income in Frisco has not gone up from 130K - will feel a pinch. Maybe not now but within couple years as their home ownership costs increase. For example my home insurance this year has gone up considerably apparently due to claims made by 'the freeze'. My car insurance has also gone up 60% because apparently DFW is now one of most dangerous cities to drive in USA. Any work on the house the prices have also gone up.

Its gradual increase that bites away, it does not hit immediately. You feel it when you need to call a handy man that charges double of what 2 years ago. When you need to replace the roof or change your car out.

Like I said, considering all the expenses of living in a SFH in North Suburbs 130K really pays for frugal lifestyle once all these costs increases hit within couple years even if you own your home outright and hopefully don't go on holidays every year or have kids to put through college.