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Sorry my mistake. I forgot, they pushed it back another two years. I should have said 2044. But it's your right to live your life in denial, if you choose.
The map I posted was the entire system. The one that is projected to be finished in 2016-2019 would be just as expansive as SLC's (just a bit shorter). Swerve
Keep in mind that KaaBoom doe not live in Salt Lake City. He probably has never been there. He does not live in Denver and has not lived here for years. He lives in Northern California and is sitting on his computer, looking for a boost for his ego; pretending to be an expert on Public Transit. He has a grudge against RTD and looks for ways to attack RTD. He is not educated or a professional in this business. His many comments show his ignorance. He is just angry at the world and something that RTD did to him or not did give him. So, do not think it is something to do with defending SLC against Denver.
The map I posted was the entire system. The one that is projected to be finished in 2016-2019 would be just as expansive as SLC's (just a bit shroter). Swerve
You are missing the entire point. Even if RTD could complete the entire FasTracks system by 2019, which RTD officials have already admitted will not happen without additional tax money. It would still be less then what UTA already has up and running. RTD is so far behind UTA, that even if $2 billion suddenly dropped out of the sky, to give them the money to complete the system, they would still have a smaller system then what SLC has already built.
If FasTracks is ever to be completed, RTD is going to have to get their act together, and stop wasting money, on nonsense like boutique hotels.
You are missing the entire point. Even if RTD could complete the entire FasTracks system by 2019, which RTD officials have already admitted will not happen without additional tax money. It would still be less then what UTA already has up and running. RTD is so far behind UTA, that even if $2 billion suddenly dropped out of the sky, to give them the money to complete the system, they would still have a smaller system then what SLC has already built.
If FasTracks is ever to be completed, RTD is going to have to get their act together, and stop wasting money, on nonsense like boutique hotels.
And I agree they have to get it together. But my point was they have already started on some of these new lines. Just counting light rail, Denver and SLC are not that far away from eachother. Even if it does cost a lot of money to make it all come together, it might still come together.
The bottom line is Denver still has more ridership, goes to more important places, and is currently working on new lines. Portland has a much more extensive lightrail then both put together. I guess that make Portland better than both cities put together...
Now, can you answer this question...what other public transit does SLC exceed Denver in?
And I agree they have to get it together. But my point was they have already started on some of these new lines. Just counting light rail, Denver and SLC are not that far away from eachother. Even if it does cost a lot of money to make it all come together, it might still come together.
The bottom line is Denver still has more ridership, goes to more important places, and is currently working on new lines. Portland has a much more extensive lightrail then both put together. I guess that make Portland better than both cities put together...
Now, can you answer this question...what other public transit does SLC exceed Denver in?
I'm not sure I understand your question. What else is better about SLC's transit system? I guess that could be that fact that UTA's maximum fare is $2.35 compared to RTD maximum fare of $5. Personally if I still lived in Denver, I wouldn't pay $4 or $5 just for a single light rail ride. It doesn't make economic sense to me. I can drive my car for less then that.
Portland is another good example of a city smaller then Denver, that has a better transit system. Sad thing is, that Denver should be ahead of Portland. RTD started planing these light rail lines back in the 1970s, before Portland was even considering light rail. RTD has had a lot of missed chances to have a great transportation system.
I'm not sure I understand your question. What else is better about SLC's transit system? I guess that could be that fact that UTA's maximum fare is $2.35 compared to RTD maximum fare of $5. Personally if I still lived in Denver, I wouldn't pay $4 or $5 just for a single light rail ride. It doesn't make economic sense to me. I can drive my car for less then that.
Portland is another good example of a city smaller then Denver, that has a better transit system. Sad thing is, that Denver should be ahead of Portland. RTD started planing these light rail lines back in the 1970s, before Portland was even considering light rail. RTD has had a lot of missed chances to have a great transportation system.
I think it's pretty clear what I was asking. Buses, Airport, etc. Portland is just a good example of urban planning. It has nothing to do with how big or small a city is. And it sure as hell doesn't make Portland a better city than larger cities with less extensive systems, does it?
In the end, Denver will most likely always be more relevant than SLC in many more categories. That is all.
MSA Population:
Denver: 2.6 million
SLC: 1.1 million
CSA Population:
Denver: 3.1 million
SLC: 2.3 million
Pro Sports:
Denver-6
SLC-2
Better Downtown:
Denver (clearly) > SLC
Schools/Universities:
-Denver wins this as far as I know.
Shopping:
-Does SLC even have an upscale mall like Cherry Creek?
Diversity:
-Denver by a lot
Transportation:
I don't see how SLC has a better lightrail system than Denver. Denver's goes to more important destinations in the city. SLC is Coming along faster than Denver, but it is not ahead at all.
New poster here. I just have to say that Denver has almost 3 times the people in as in the immediate Salt Lake City area. I think it speaks volumes that the two metropolitan areas are even being compared. The cities may seem similar but are very different. Salt Lake City is much smaller, offers less of a true urban experience, is less gritty, and is in a very socially conservative state.
Population:
Population doesn't make one city better than another. The Wasatch Front is a mostly north-south string of towns and cities much like the Front Range area. If you account for all Wasatch Front cities, the total population of the region is about 2.7 million compared to 4.4 million in the Front Range. This issue that I see is that Utah's urban center is far behind the Front Range in population, but still ahead of the Front Range in many other aspects.
Sports Teams:
It should be expected that a smaller city/metro area would have fewer sports teams than a major city. Don't forget that Salt Lake City acquired a MLS team with a much smaller population then when Colorado got the Rapids. I am also sure you remember the 2002 Winter Olympic Games in Salt Lake City. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that Denver, nor anyplace in Colorado, has hosted the Olympics.
Downtown:
I will agre Denver's downtown is more lively.
Schools/Universities:
I would call it a tie. The Front Range has CU Boulder, several smaller schools in Denver, University of Northern Colorado, and Colorado State. The Wasatch Front has the Univeristy of Utah, Utah State University, Brigham Young University, Weber State University, and Westminster College among others.
Shopping:
Yes, Salt Lake City has the Cherry Creek Center, which opened less than a year ago in Downtown Salt Lake City. It doesn't have all the high end stores of Cherry Creek, but it does offer department stores like Macy's and Nordstrom in a downtown setting.
Lets not forget that Trader Joe's already operates stores in Salt Lake City and H&M opened the day after the store in Denver. All in a city that is less than 1/3 of the size of Denver.
Diversity: Tie.
Transportation:
Ahh, the transportation debate. Denver's light rail system might be surpassing the mileage of Salt Lake City's, but isn't as evenly spread across the metropolitan area, nor are there any commuter rail option on the Front Range. Salt Lake City obviously wins. Having half the population of metro Denver, but a system that is evenly distributed geographically speaking, will operate service to the airport less than 3 months from now, and offers regional rail on top of all this wins. Hands down. RTD's daily ridership on its light rail is only slightly higher than TRAX, but yet the Denver area has twice the population. Speaks volumes to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMM64
Dude you really need to know what you're talking about before stating things based purley on your eyes. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU"RE SAYING!!! No one is bashing SLC and for some reason you flip your lid over Denver, WHY?
You realize SLC is also on brown dusty plains, it just has mountains right next to it. There are only more trees in SLC along the edges of the mountains, so to say that SLC is a lush environment compared to Denver is completely untrue. Denver has dramatic views of mountains to it's just not right up against them but not far away either. I personally think the size and lenght of the Front Range rising 9,000 ft above Denver is better than to views of the less consitently high Wasatch range rising 7,000 ft above SLC in only two areas. You realize that being right up against the mountains doesn't mean the mountains are better or bigger.
Also SLC's roads are not more modern they are just newer, most of I-25 in Denver predates the interstate system, and is therefore older looking. I-15 in Utah is no more modern than I-25 it is just newer. Denver was always a bigger city than SLC and therefore needed big roads much sooner, the fact is SLC has only really began growing in the last 20 to 50 years and therefore the highways are newer.
I've sat in traffic in SLC before, while it's not as bad as Denver's because it's a smaller city traffic does still very much exist in SLC. Go to LA and then you'll see what real traffic is.
There are tons of new homes in Denver, and SLC has many old neighborhoods just like Denver does.
To say the shopping is better in SLC just because there are large anchor stores in Downtown SLC vs Denver also makes no sense. Denver has alot more shopping options than SLC close to downtown Denver. Just because SLC has them downtown is not a reason at all! The IKEA in Denver is the largest in the Country, and just because SLC had on before Denver isn't a reason for better shopping. I personally think IKEA is way overrated though.
Many cities have agricultural areas near them SLC is one of them. Go to the south of SLC and you'll smell them too. To say that the odors near Denver are terrible and over bearing is nuts, unless you drive 20 miles east on I-70 or I-76 and really look for them than how in the world would you notice. I've lived in big cities and very small ones so not living right near farm areas has nothing to do with smelling bad smells. It seems you are just overly negative. Go to Kansas City or Memphis then you'll really notice the bad smell outside the city. Yet both of these cities are great!
SLC's climate is not more stable than Denver's it can be 40 degrees one day and 70 the next in SLC too. However to say that the temperature changes make up the majority of the climate in Denver is insane, only about three times every winter does anything like this happen in Denver. Plus overall Denver is warmer than SLC in the winter. I'll take mostly 40 degree days with the occasional day of 70 or 15 anyday over the constant 25-30 degree weather in SLC from Dec to March.
All you're doing is using your personal interpretations to use as facts to bash Denver in a completely untrue way. If you like SLC better that's great but know what you are saying first!
I have to agree with most of co_transplant's statements. I went to school in at the University of Utah and I have been to Denver numerous times. I go back to both cities pretty frequently .For its size, Salt Lake City is superior to Denver is many categories. Denver is wonderful, but it is severly lacking in many areas.
I think it's pretty clear what I was asking. Buses, Airport, etc.
Obviously the Denver Airport is way bigger then SLC.
Bus service. UTA probably beats RTD on busses, same way they do on rail.
UTA operates a fleet of more than 600 buses and paratransit vehicles, 400 vanpools, 146 light rail vehicles, 63 commuter rail cars and 18 locomotives in a 1,600 square mile service area that stretches over six counties from Payson to Brigham City. The Authority serves the largest segment of population in the State of Utah, approximately 1.8 million and operates in one of the largest geographical service areas of any transit agency in the U.S.
New poster here. I just have to say that Denver has almost 3 times the people in as in the immediate Salt Lake City area. I think it speaks volumes that the two metropolitan areas are even being compared. The cities may seem similar but are very different. Salt Lake City is much smaller, offers less of a true urban experience, is less gritty, and is in a very socially conservative state.
Population:
Population doesn't make one city better than another. The Wasatch Front is a mostly north-south string of towns and cities much like the Front Range area. If you account for all Wasatch Front cities, the total population of the region is about 2.7 million compared to 4.4 million in the Front Range. This issue that I see is that Utah's urban center is far behind the Front Range in population, but still ahead of the Front Range in many other aspects. Did I say it made Denver better for everyone? No. I said that those are the reasons I feel Denver is a better city. And there are a few cities smaller than Denver that offer "other aspects". The same way Chicago may offer more aspects than LA. But that doesn't make Chicago the more relevant city.
Sports Teams:
It should be expected that a smaller city/metro area would have fewer sports teams than a major city. Don't forget that Salt Lake City acquired a MLS team with a much smaller population then when Colorado got the Rapids. I am also sure you remember the 2002 Winter Olympic Games in Salt Lake City. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that Denver, nor anyplace in Colorado, has hosted the Olympics. There are cities larger thanDenver who don't have all 4 major sports teams, so SLC being smaller than Denver should not be an excuse. And don't bring up the olympics. We had them coming to Denver in 1976. They just got rejected. SLC also wanted to host that year as the second choice, but still lost out until 2002.
Downtown:
I will agre Denver's downtown is more lively. I have been to SLC once before, and I though it had a great Downtown for a city it's size. They have better department stores than Downtown Denver, but in my opinion Downtown Denver wins in other things (Attractions, overall shopping, living, etc)
Schools/Universities:
I would call it a tie. The Front Range has CU Boulder, several smaller schools in Denver, University of Northern Colorado, and Colorado State. The Wasatch Front has the Univeristy of Utah, Utah State University, Brigham Young University, Weber State University, and Westminster College among others. Now that you bring it up, I guess this is a pretty good argument. I think CU Boulder and CSU beat USU and BYU by a small margrine. And University of Denver is also a major university to consider.
Shopping:
Yes, Salt Lake City has the Cherry Creek Center, which opened less than a year ago in Downtown Salt Lake City. It doesn't have all the high end stores of Cherry Creek, but it does offer department stores like Macy's and Nordstrom in a downtown setting. Don't get me wrong, I think that City Creek Center is a wonderful mall and Gateway Mall doesn't seem bad at all. However, I don't see that comparing to Cherry Creek. CC is a larger shopping district with a few more higher end stores. 16th Street Mall honestly isn't anything special, but I don't think Gateway Mall is either.
Lets not forget that Trader Joe's already operates stores in Salt Lake City and H&M opened the day after the store in Denver. All in a city that is less than 1/3 of the size of Denver. They just got Trader Joe's. And Denver will soon have more of those stores in the area. And it seems like SLC is in a never ending effort to compete with Denver in the shopping category. It's doing fairly well.
Diversity: Tie. Um, no. How is this a "tie". Please inform me.
Transportation:
Ahh, the transportation debate. Denver's light rail system might be surpassing the mileage of Salt Lake City's, but isn't as evenly spread across the metropolitan area, nor are there any commuter rail option on the Front Range. Salt Lake City obviously wins. Having half the population of metro Denver, but a system that is evenly distributed geographically speaking, will operate service to the airport less than 3 months from now, and offers regional rail on top of all this wins. Hands down. RTD's daily ridership on its light rail is only slightly higher than TRAX, but yet the Denver area has twice the population. Speaks volumes to me. So if SLC's lightrail covers more of the metro, shouldn't they have the larger ridership numbers? Denver's lightrail doesn't cover as much of it's metro, but Denver's metro is also twice as wide and a bit longer in length. So no, TRAX does not 'obviously win'.
I have to agree with most of co_transplant's statements. I went to school in at the University of Utah and I have been to Denver numerous times. I go back to both cities pretty frequently .For its size, Salt Lake City is superior to Denver is many categories. Denver is wonderful, but it is severly lacking in many areas.
Another thing...SLC lacks in Urban fabric, Architecture, nightlife, events, and annual visitors (compared to Denver atleast). Denver's GMP= $157,567 vs SLC's GMP= $66,456. Denver is a tier or two ahead of SLC, even if SLC does do slightly better in some aspects. Not sure if I should be suspicious that this is one of your first posts
Obviously the Denver Airport is way bigger then SLC.
Bus service. UTA probably beats RTD on busses, same way they do on rail.
UTA operates a fleet of more than 600 buses and paratransit vehicles, 400 vanpools, 146 light rail vehicles, 63 commuter rail cars and 18 locomotives in a 1,600 square mile service area that stretches over six counties from Payson to Brigham City. The Authority serves the largest segment of population in the State of Utah, approximately 1.8 million and operates in one of the largest geographical service areas of any transit agency in the U.S.
I believe these are the statistics for both RTD and UTA overall.
Denver (as of 2007): 313,590 boardings (2007)
SLC (as of recently): 154,600 (daily boardings)
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