Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That is utter nonsense. We do not look at either the median or the average for these things - we look at a bell curve and a normal distribution. Everything within 1 standard deviation is the "normal" range, that's about 68% of the population. Within 2 standard deviations is still normalish, that's about 95% of the population. The tails of the bell curve are the truly out of range and outliers..
Actually, the normal ranges of medical lab values are defined as mean +/-2 SD and "abnormal" does not equate with "unhealthy"- eg: 7ft tall is abnormal, but not necessarily unhealthy.
"Outliers" are data points well away from the group when you only have a small number of data points and there is no meaningful bell curve.
My point was that half of all people are heavier than the mean, and half lighter than the mean. But no conclusions can be drawn about health based on weight.
State of health is binary: if you have zero diseases, you are healthy. If you have at least one health problem, you are unhealthy. There's a weakness in our language: racing cars is "safer" than racing motorcycles, yet neither is "safe." How can that be? Is the guy with diabetes "healthier" than the guy with diabetes and cancer? Neither is "healthy."
That's because "Nutrition" is a pseudo-science relying mostly on questionnaire-type studies ("How much salted, smoked, packaged meat did you eat each day over the last 25 yrs?"-- as if people (a) can remember, and (b) never ever vary their diet or tastes, and (c) aren't lying to make themselves appear "good."
Physicians are taught biochemistry, cellular physiology and physiology, including endocrinology-- all much more scientific and practical, going way beyond "nutrition."
Physicians are taught to push pills. Nothing more, nothing less. It has been that way since Rockefeller and Carnegie took over the medical schools in the early 20th century.
You would have to be crazy not to know that there is no better way to avoid T2 diabetes, heart disease, many cancer, bone and joint replacements, and a dozen other maladies, than by maintaining the correct weight for your height, exercising (just a 20-minute daily brisk walk), and minimizing the consumption of junk food.
In fact, if we had the obesity rate of the Japanese (3%), Big Pharma would be out of business, and hospitals would be half empty.
But keep pushing those pills, doc, because that's all you know.
Look at it this way: Americans may have a high percentage of obesity, but our average longevity is within a few tenths of a yr of any other group on Earth. Note that a tenth of a yr is only 5 weeks-- out of 80 yrs. Obesity isn't really making us any un-healthier. (BTW- by definition, half of all people are under-weight.)
Yes, you can extend the lives of people with a cocktail of 12 different drugs. Of course they are languishing in nursing homes and are totally miserable, but they do get that additional year or two. Personally, I would rather die younger.
Japan is 83.7. US is 79.4. That's more than 5 weeks. We have more murders, but they have a higher suicide rate and they smoke more.
In that case, given that obesity is not the cause of any disease, over-weight is not unhealthy, so who cares? That was my point about mentioning the real meaning of the math of under- vs over- weight. Weight extremes are not in themselves unhealthy, but are associated with inappropriate levels of nutrient intake.
Are you kidding me? What is percentage of Americans who are overweight? What are the percentage of people with Type 2 diabetes that are overweight?
You can argue about the cause, but the fact is, the best way to avoid T2 diabetes is not to be overweight.
Physicians are taught to push pills. Nothing more, nothing less. It has been that way since Rockefeller and Carnegie took over the medical schools in the early 20th century.
You would have to be crazy not to know that there is no better way to avoid T2 diabetes, heart disease, many cancer, bone and joint replacements, and a dozen other maladies, than by maintaining the correct weight for your height, exercising (just a 20-minute daily brisk walk), and minimizing the consumption of junk food.
In fact, if we had the obesity rate of the Japanese (3%), Big Pharma would be out of business, and hospitals would be half empty.
But keep pushing those pills, doc, because that's all you know.
You clearly haven't actually been to medical school, yet you make ex cathedra pronouncements on what it teaches.
BTW Japan is the second biggest pharmaceutical drug market in the world.
I tell you a fact. If we didn't have half so many nitwits overestimating their intellectual prowess & facility with logic, suffering from chronic fundamental attribution error, conspiracy theory monomania, conflating doctors with pharmaceutical companies, then the debate would be a whole lot more informed and effective.
You can tell people to exercise, eat well and keep active without the additional helping of tripe on the side.
You can argue about the cause, but the fact is, the best way to avoid T2 diabetes is not to be overweight.
GET IT?
No, you don't get it.
You are Type II diabetic due to your genes. You treat Type II by eating properly to avoid obesity. If you follow your diet and your BS goes to normal, you are still diabetic.
Are you an alcoholic because you drink? According to AA you are an alcoholic even after you quit drinking. The treatment is: don't drink. Exactly analogous to DM.
In regards docs & pills: it's the patients who insist on pills. Most pills for DM don't reduce complication rates. Lowering BS with most pills is like treating pneumonia only with aspirin: the patient will still die, but he will be afebrile. If a pt goes to the doc and pays a c-note or two, he will go away disappointed and insulted if not given a prescription. If you don;t want a prescription, don't go to the doctor.
Are you kidding me? What is percentage of Americans who are overweight? What are the percentage of people with Type 2 diabetes that are overweight?
You can argue about the cause, but the fact is, the best way to avoid T2 diabetes is not to be overweight.
GET IT?
I know thin people who are type 2 diabetic. It's genetic. Both of their parents have it. Being overweight doesn't help and you can become type 2 diabetic but the few that I know are average weight and have it. My uncle was always thin as a kid and developed Type 1 (also can be genetic and it was). coming from a family plus in-laws who have it I think I know something about it.
I know thin people who are type 2 diabetic. It's genetic. Both of their parents have it. Being overweight doesn't help and you can become type 2 diabetic but the few that I know are average weight and have it. My uncle was always thin as a kid and developed Type 1 (also can be genetic and it was). coming from a family plus in-laws who have it I think I know something about it.
To say one is a "diabetic" is analogous to saying one has an "infection." Infection, and diabetes, are a class of diseases, not single diseases. TB is different than meningitis and different than an infected cut on the skin.
"Diabetes" means the pt has elevated BS, but there are several different genetic causes for that: each step in the process of making insulin, of making glucagon, of making receptors for insulin, of making the enzymes that control the making of glucose, of making incretins, etc etc etc is controlled by a different enzyme, which means by a different gene. It may take a particular gene, or a particular combination of genes to finally result in hi BS. There are no doubt many different combinations that result in diabetes. (We're talking Type II here.)
Type I involves the very low production of insulin. That usually involves an autoimmune reaction that destroys Islet cells in the pancreas after exposure to some virus. It's genetic in the sense that genes control the way the pt's immune system does things and many genes are involved. Just like siblings often can't donate a kidney to a sib because their immune systems are too different, Type I doesn't usually "run in families." (There are other less common ways to destroy Islet cells, like recurring pancreatitis from alcoholism or gall stones.)
Re: the importance of genes + environment-- compare "diabetic genes" needing hi carb diet to show itself to skin color among people of Mediterranean ancestry: genes are obviously involved, but the skin needs to be exposed to sunlight in order to tan. And contrarily, no matter how much sun a typical Swede gets, he won't develop a Copper Tone Tan.
And then there's the concepts of expressivity and penetrance when it comes to phenotypes. This has to do with why people with the same genes can still be different- more than we need to know here.
I know thin people who are type 2 diabetic. It's genetic. Both of their parents have it. Being overweight doesn't help and you can become type 2 diabetic but the few that I know are average weight and have it. My uncle was always thin as a kid and developed Type 1 (also can be genetic and it was). coming from a family plus in-laws who have it I think I know something about it.
We know there are thin people who have T2. And we know there are non-smokers who get lung cancer. So what?
The best way to avoid lung cancer is not to smoke. The best way to avoid T2 diabetes is to not get fat.
Notice that in the diabetes commercials that all the actors who are singing and dancing and boogying and having a great time are fat? There's a reason they were chosen for the commercials.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
