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Nice discussion guys. I want to touch on something else that I haven't seen touched on yet.
You guys have to understand, we only will have "SO MANY" well-paying jobs in our economy at one time considering supply, demand, market forces and trends. This is why it's important for the US Government to have KEPT the dollar strong so that $1 would have continued to go far in purchasing items in relation to living procedures.
The government went off the gold standard, and the Federal Reserve has been increasing the monetary supply significantly reducing the value of the dollar. While we sit around here at Election Time every 2-4 years and discuss tax policies, the BIGGEST TAX is the inflation tax. But the average American has no idea what the Federal Reserve is, how it works, and why the "true power" of this country lies NOT in "the President and Congress" but the Federal Reserve.
It's so disingenuous for the Mainstream Media to PROGRAM the citizens into thinking that Income Inequality has something to do with businesses not paying the citizens "enough money". As I pointed out in another thread, the citizens are being PAID for the contribution they bring to the table. If you produce $40,000 a year in revenue for a business and you are paid a total of $25,000 for that year, then that's right in line with being efficient. You having 5 kids to feed from 5 different deadbeat Fathers that aren't assisting with the expenses of those children, is NOT THE FAULT OF MCDONALDS.
The reason the middle class can't make it is due to GOVERNMENT and the Federal Reserve.
- Trade Policy has reduced the quantity of well paying positions. This comes at the same time when people are racking up $50,000 in student loan debt to compete for few well paying positions to cover that debt loan UNLESS they are going into STEM. Blame the Republicans and Democrats for this.
- Federal Reserve INCREASING the cost of living across the board through bad monetary policy.
We as citizens need to stop fighting each other because, "I'm a Conservative and you are an Evil Liberal, or vice versa" because we as citizens are ALL being screwed over through horrible Government policies and the Federal Reserve. But the majority of the citizens have no clue what's going on, they get their "political fix" from Fox News or MSNBC and then run off isolating those "evil Republicans" or "evil Democrats" that live next door or up the street....without understanding that they are going through the SAME issues you are.
I like Elizabeth Warren, she gets the picture of reality, that we need major adjustment in our economic model. President Obama introduced the reality perspective, when he spoke of empowering the working class with income and means to have the basics and have them in an affordable manner. People panicked, and have been fighting him every since. Thankfully he has not abandoned his ideal, neither has Elizabeth Warren.
It does not matter than a faction would care to leave the madness as it is, with stagnated wage, overly inflated education cost, and thankfully the Presidents administration was able to put a cap on the real-estate slide that was wiping out the homes of American.
I now have a 4.5% home loan, My car is 1999, my employment is stable, and it is good that people can have a yearly expense cap on out of pocket medical expenditure per year. rather than being stuck with a sliding upwards 80/20 where the 20% leaves them susceptible to having a lien placed on their home by a medical provider. The money cost may be a bit more for some, but the combined expense of monthly cost and yearly out of pocket, is a lot less than the 20%, especially as people get older and need major surgeries or other procedures.
The fighting against the administration won't stop, part because of the history of american' bias and racism, part because the massive machine of expenditure the right wing put in play, when 2008 exposed them as the catalysis of the greatest default since the Great Depression along with the full scope destabilization of the Middle East.
Most of the loud mouth's that push against ACA, are people who are wealthy and can afford elite medical care coverages. Take Limbaugh, with his $30 million plus income, he can flap his lips, because he can pay cash for services if he needs them.
The average person needs a reasonable income to make it.
as I wrote in a previous posting. (The Lower Economic Class)
Non-Middle Lower Economic Class: (Dire Poverty, Below Poverty and (at) Poverty
Middle Lower Economic Class : 10-40% above poverty
(Upper)Middle Lower Class: 30-70% above poverty
If this group does not rise, then much of America also falls.. Because this is an area where a bulk of American's live, and depending on the part of the country, it is even more devastating than in other parts.
We now have a disposable mentality society, where quality is diminished and nothing is made to be repairable, only replaced. Once Upon a Time; we had a society of repairable products, not only did we have a mass of independent persons who set up shop and made a living by repairing products, the manufactuer did well, in the 'after market parts sales", it was a fixed and lucrative aspect of their business model.
Today, we spend double the price for low grade "disposable" goods, designed with a short life span and no durability in the context of being repairable. Therefore, we spend excessively in this areas by the programmed need to replace things at programmed intervals of time. We also are much to blame, because we will throw away good usable things, for something with a new shiny button on it. We get lost in thinking that every upgrade is a neccessity to have, when we already don't use the built in functions in the current existing model.
Cell Phones is a great example of idiocy in actions in these regards: People get absorbed in taking massive volumes of pictures, which often times they may never see again as it becomes buried in the volumes they already have. The cheapest unit will go to facebook, just like the expensive unit will. Some are absorbed in games and such things, which the producers of the unit can easily lure them to re-purchase the next model, as some forgo responsible needs to have these newer models.
Personally, I don't see how anyone who is committed to their work and the expanding elements that come with responsible work, would have time to play games on a high frequency).
Years ago, I bought all kinds of software and over time, the awareness struck like a bolt of lightening, that I could do many things with the existing software, without buying every new thing that came out. some people upgrade, when they don't utilize much of what exist in their current software bundle.
When it comes to cars, people buy what is advertised, rather than what they need and what has sustainable value. We see many models which are marketed with a lower level of quality, guaranteed within 3 yrs, to loose great value and also to become somewhat unreliable.
I've owned 2 Porsche's, which were as the mechanic said, is built like a tank. It did not require much maintenance because I did not drive them abusively as if I need to play speed racer every time I get in it. I've had 2 Benz's both extremely durable and low maintenance vehicles, and 2 BMW's which were more maintenance than the Benz, and a host of other cars. I stick with the Benz, it cost when it needs work, but to drive it sanely and not abuse it, it does not require frequent maintenance, therefore I consider it a car for the working class. (if you note many foreign nations use them as Taxi Cabs, because the durability is assured.)
As to income, depending on the part of the country, the sliding scale of what is basic needed to be a homeowner and have good medical coverage and be able to eat healthy is far different when one looks at the expense of the region they live.
We have to think of savings, as well as our charitable giving, these are part of the basics, whether one gives to a church or other organizations, it's part of the groomed American culture.
At no place and no time can Minimum wage provide any more than what it would have cost a slave owner to house and feed a slave, it is not even equal to the pay of an indentured servant. That's what Minimum wage equals. No medical, transportation difficulties, area confinement, as well as no saving, no means for stability or upward mobility and many other elements is not even a factor which can be considered in the spectrum of minimum wage.
The wage required to become a homeowner is one has to earn the basic of the montly payment in 1 weeks work equal of a 4 week earning period. Yet, it is rated that it should not exceed 1/3 of ones income at the highest. Yet, today, it becomes a nightmare where more than 40-60% of some incomes is consumed to own and maintain a home. The rental market in many ways, only gives one a slight lesser monthly expense, but in some areas, the rents are almost equal to or in some cases more than what it would cost to buy and own a home.
Go and look at the Rental Rates Charts posted by HUD.
Those who are quick to slam the poor, and those who are quick to use the right wing 'buzz words", blind themselves to the reality of what exist. They make broad assumption about people, without taking FULL account of reality conditions.
AMERICA, still has a vast spectrum of racist idealism, which translates often into conscedending buzz word madness.
Yet, as a society many are first up to deny that racism exist, yet, never take into account what comes out of their mouth from a outside perspective. They don't consider what drives their bias, but much is often based on the aims of trying to live with a 1950's mentality, when that was a period of overt segregation, and high profile bigotry and white priviledge, which many developed a sense that they were entitled to such. In current day, the commonality of such expectation becomes an anguish point, when one faces the situations where they don't receive white first entitlement to act, do, be a part of and receive, based on such premise. Yet, they claim they support equality. But quickly become enraged when they have to live in a situations where equality is represented in the manners and modes of what constitutes equality. which means, you don't get to dictate, you don't get to try and direct others to submit to your way of thinking or doing, and you don't get to downrate and belittle those who do not submit to emulation of your conduct and manner. For so long white society had that mentality, some still fight like a mad plague to try and force feed that upon others. We see it in the Right Wing system, in their assualts upon womens rights and equality, attacks upon the civil liberties of others, with district rigging and voter suppression and multitudes of other ways. They attack the liberal minded who become open to see a world of many cultures with many varying ideals about living. We have a Far Right Religious segement, which is as dictorial in their manner and aims, as the radical muslims are in their aims to dominate and dictate over others. Therefore, we as a people of varying make up.. have a great deal of work to do as a society and as indivudals within society, before we find the unity that strengthens a nation and uplifts its people.
China has us beat in these regards, they have 55 ethnic groups, but they see them all as being "Chinese".
In America, we saw the rise of the Tea Party, Talking about "We want our country back", the minutes they saw a blackman become the President of this Nation. As if they assume America belongs only to whites and can be lead by only a white man. Although, they will deny this truth in motive and try and lay blame on anything and everything, rather than face the truth of what drives their ideology. Republican Administration left a devastated nation in a state of depression and embroiled in multiple wars, with astronomical debt, both current and project debt accumulation for the next 10 yrs. But the Tea Party dismissed all of that and became focused on one core objective, which is: to fight the premise of a non white man in the White House. They don't care about facts and functions, as they proved that by government shuts downs, denying debt increases and fighting every measure proposed to help America people, simply because these were not things presented by a white man in the leadership role.
It hurt our economy, it has hurt the wage progression of average citizens and left many jobless, and homeless; along with debt and no opportunity for the current and previously graduates to find accessible employment.
These thing affect the Income Earning Potential of American People. Leaving 50 Percent Of American Workers to Make Less Than 28,031 Dollars A Year
As a society, there is much to learn, but many hold an obstinance which they pride themselves upon, which is straight out of a John Birch Mentality System. Rather than open the minds eyes and see a broader spectrum which is inclusive, and not one that seeks to find label, condition and opportunity to exculde.
Our system, its' economy and much else, relies heavily upon people becoming aware,learning to respect the personhood of each other as individuals who make up what is American Society. This major milestone must be met, "before" we can develop a system that is designed and functions to respect the "INDIVIDUAL" with a Premise of Equality of Person as Human Beings who is A People of these United States.
Sadly, this will take us a great span to achieve, because American history was filled with many many things which made it a difficult to achieve. Unfortunate as it is, this is what exist in the make up and history of America: //www.city-data.com/forum/37023705-post9.html
Last edited by Chance and Change; 10-28-2014 at 08:45 AM..
Your chart has zero credibility. Just look at the healthcare tab. Employer contribution or not, healthcare costs are through the roof. When I was in college in the mid 1990s I could buy a very good private plan for $200/mo. I remember people complaining then that the price was up 100% over the past 5 years!
In other words, in the late 80s, it was 100$/mo for premium health insurance (with little to no copays, btw). An equivalent plan today would cost me well in excess of $1000/mo that's an increase of over 1000% in 25 years.
Yet your chart shows healthcare as the virtually the same! C'mon, now.
Actually, using terms like "collapsing" and "through the roof" when discussing facts screams of zero credibility.
We have a government that allows illegals to enter this country and destroy good middle class jobs with stagnate wages or even worse stolen jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777
Picking fruit is a 'good middle class job'?
Residential construction. Carpenters, painters, plumbers, electricians, masons, cabinet makers, concrete workers, appliance installers, carpet layers, tile layers, countertop installers, operating engineers, HVAC installers, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Around here, you cannot find anyone who speaks English. Even the so-called supervisors barely know a few words of English. They drive by the local nursery, pick up day laborers, give them T-Shirts that say "Best Carpentry" and today they are "skilled carpenters." They have to return the T-Shirts at the end of the day. Tomorrow a plumbing truck drives by the nursery, picks up some day laborers, give them T-shirts that say "Honest Plumbing" and today they are "skilled plumbers", only to return the T-Shirts at the end of the day.
Residential construction. Carpenters, painters, plumbers, electricians, masons, cabinet makers, concrete workers, appliance installers, carpet layers, tile layers, countertop installers, operating engineers, HVAC installers, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Around here, you cannot find anyone who speaks English. Even the so-called supervisors barely know a few words of English. They drive by the local nursery, pick up day laborers, give them T-Shirts that say "Best Carpentry" and today they are "skilled carpenters." They have to return the T-Shirts at the end of the day. Tomorrow a plumbing truck drives by the nursery, picks up some day laborers, give them T-shirts that say "Honest Plumbing" and today they are "skilled plumbers", only to return the T-Shirts at the end of the day.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Obviously, someone is still hiring them or they would not continue the habit and practices.
We can't complain about what we seek and support on one hand, and then claim we detest it on the other, and tomorrow when the plumbing breaks, we are seeking them out, or seeking some company who specializes in focusing their aims to acquire undocumented persons for labor.
They( business owners or contractors) pocket their profits and continue smiling as they head to the bank. The individuals who utilize the undocumented services, smile happily at their savings, by hiring a undocumented worker who will do the work for 35-50-60% less than a U.S. Citizen who does this type of work. and they will boast to their friends and associate about how much they saved in what they had done.
People may complain about the lack of English skills,but they are really only concerned that the person can interpet enough to make the deal and understand what the expectations of the job is.
This is the nature of the situation - its unlikely to change any time soon.
This post is my response to anyone that posts charts that claim that wages have not collapsed. Well said, CK78.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CK78
RecentGrad is right! Wow!
When I bought my first new car in 2002 a Chevy Cavalier I got it for like 12,000 dollars. Maybe a little more. I got it unloaded to get the price down. Show me where to buy a car for that price today. By the way gas was well under $2.00 a gallon then. It cost me $13.00 or so the first time I filled up my car.
Around that same time I talked to a guy I know who was born in the mid-30's. We gat to talking about his first new car since he noticed I had gotten one. Anyway he told me it was a 56' Chevy and he loved it. So one of my questions from young naïve me was, and I'll never forget the chuckle he gave me, I asked, "So what were your payments like?" He got a kick out of it because he knew I didn't understand and was like a Buck taking a young buck under his wing. He explained to me that "back then" people did not finance cars, they paid up front. In few exceptional cases you might get a 6 month to a year payment set up if it was really necessary. Now in my mind I'm thinking he's not rich and never was, he had just a H.S. education, how can somebody "like that" afford to buy new cars with money up front or cash?
Well, I'm not so naïve anymore.
Buying new cars with cash for non-rich people was not that uncommon even into the 70's as GuyNTexas explains below. New Grad let me assure you we are being raped...BAD!!!!! And gas being less expensive...P-L-E-A-S-E!!!!!!
"I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire,... The man that controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire. And I control the money supply"
Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild, of the Rothschild international banking cartel
"From reading the posts, perhaps, the first thing to do, in order to come up with a solution, is identify exactly what "income inequity" is.
In 1960, the average income for semi-professional and non-professional jobs was $7060 a year. In 2010, the average income for those same jobs was $45,406. (source of information is athttp://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article...=JS_2146_home1) And, from another source,. the 2010 figure is about 25% too high. Unfortunately, I do not have the link to the other source.
According to another source, http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article...=JS_2146_home1 executive income has gone up six times in just the last twenty years. Another words, an exec that is making $360,000 today, was only making $60,000 twenty years ago.
It says that executive pay went up an average of 30% each year for the last twenty years while middle-class America has only gotten an average of 12% each year for the last fifty years. And, we're not including bonuses or "Golden Parachutes".
One more area to look at, and this is from my own experience. In 1965 and 1966, I was making $8,000 a year. I was also paying 17 cents a gallon for gasoline. Just today, the current price of gasoline at the corner gas station at the corner is $3.599. To maintain the ratio between income and the cost of gasoline, today's average income should be about $170,000 a year.
In 1973, I was making $14,000 a year, and paying $51 every six months for car insurance. (And, supporting a wife and two kids, while buying a house for $10,000) The last premium I paid on car insurance came out to $147 a month. Back in 1973, the monthly cost was just $8.50. To maintain the ratio of income to car insurance premiums, today's average income should be about$240,000 a year. Want to check with IRS and see just how many "Average Americans" are actually making that much? And, the story is the same no matter what area of expense you look at, groceries, utilities, housing, etc.
That is what is "INCOME INEQUITY". What to do about it is the "$64,000 question". Solutions are sure to be as varied as the people that offer them, but now, you should be able to come up with a better informed opinion.
Now, with regard to the quote, by all means, give your kids every advantage you can. Stress education. Any kind of court record will hurt their chances for a successful career. But, keep in mind...
Let's say that 99% of the next generation gets a master's degree. (No, I don't think that's realistic) It's also not realistic to think that every one of them will get jobs where they will use that degree. There will be a number of them serving at Pizza Hut. A good education and a clean record does not give them a guarantee, but it does improve their chances at a comfortable life." (end quote)
Congratulations the_windwalker, you've earned a spot on my anecdotes collection that's meant to show in a very concrete way the wage stagflation or really deflation experienced for the bottom 80-90 percent of workers the last 30-40 years. I submit only the top 1- 20% percent of wage earners has kept up with cost inflation. That's 2 in 10 workers, certainly NOT middle class, and I think 20% is pushing it. More like the top 10%.
Keep in mind when you read these anecdotes and watch Dr. Warren's lecture think RATIOS. That's exactly my point. For example: "In 1973, I was making $14,000 a year, and paying $51 every six months for car insurance. (And, supporting a wife and two kids, while buying a house for $10,000). How many people now make 40% more IN ONE YEAR than the value of their HOME!!!!: cool::thi nk: GuyNTexas' anecdote illustrates this point very well also.
just because SALARIES havent kept up with INFLATION doesnt mean we should still CLASSIFY based on 1955/1965 numbers.......average salary in 1966..6900...median house price 14k....about 50% right...use those numbers compared to the meadin house....the median salary SHOULD be 130k...not 50k
sorry but this is not 1955 , when 250k was rich...please get with the times...its 2010"(end quote)
"The "inequity" comes in where the expenses have out-paced the income for the average American. While EVERYTHING ELSE has gone up, income for the "middle-class" has stagnated over the last fifty years. That is the problem with the economy today. The "middle-class", the MAJORITY of Americans do not have enough money to keep the economy flowing. Inequity = DIS-PROPORTIONATE".
Show me just one exec whose decisions are actually worth a million dollars a day. Even just a thousand dollars a day. Think about it. As great as he was, even Steve Jobs is now replaced. And, as great as he was for the company, he was not that great for America. Look where your Apple product is made. American jobs?
Ever hear of "The Law of Diminishing Returns"? Keep raising your prices, and eventually, you'll price yourself out of business. That is what Corporate America has done. They have priced the economy out of business.
Take a look at the cost of a kit to put a motor on a bicycle. A 50 CC kit has gone up nearly $100 because of the demand. They're replacing cars with motorized bicycles and scooters. And, the auto industry isn't doing as well as they were ten years ago.
If a cashier is being paid exactly what they are worth, then we're paying far more for everything than it's worth. Gasoline isn't worth $3.599 a gallon. Why are we paying that much? Car insurance is not worth what we're paying. Why are we paying it?"(end quote)
Withou further ado here's the rest of the collection. In my opinion no one who is honest, can think critically and do math can deny what's contained herein:
Pay close attention to the years in the following posts of people who lived in the mid 70's-early 80's:
"Sad. I made $9 an hour during the Summer break in the mid 1980s running telephone lines in office buildings. It was a horrible low paying job then. You know what $9 is worth today adjusted for inflation since 1985. $4.42 cents. That same job today would be need to pay $18.50 per hour. If you have no perspective on how things suck..you'll settle for anything. The USA will look like these ghettos in Brazil before people wake up to this right wing propaganda they've been spoon fed for 30 years."(end quote)
"You know what $9 is worth today adjusted for inflation since 1985. $4.42 cents."
"Just because things were better, doesn't mean they were great. I don't deny that there were folks like yourself. Nevertheless, more opportunity (on average) did exist back then.
During college I worked part time at a warehouse. One of my co workers was a Guyanese who came into the US illegally in '77 or '78 (he later received amnesty under Reagan). He used to tell me how his first job, as an illegal, paid $10.50/hour. In 2006, after he was laid off from a warehouse making 33/hour, we were working for $12/hr. $10.50 in '78 or 12 in 2006. Inflation much?"(end quote)
"Also the wages aren't there and if you compare that with inflation it just doesn't work.
In 1980, I had an entry level job as a sound engineer with a local independent TV station earning $5.00 per hour.One paycheck paid my rent and utilities and auto insurance and the other 3 paycheckseach month were disposable income.
An entry level job today pays $8.50 to $10 per hour and even at $10 per hour it takes 2 paychecks to cover the cost of rent, utilities and auto insurance (and don't forget in 1980 $10 -- or two hours of work -- paid for 2 tickets to the cinema show, a tank full of gasoline and something to eat after the movie -- the cost of two movie tickets now is over $20)."
(end quote)
"The guy is a typical, narrow minded moron who probably has a picture of Reagan on his wall and NOBAMA stickers on his car. He really thinks in this world, with gas being $3.50 per gallon and food twice what it was 5 years ago that $8.50 per hour is "competitive" How friggin stupid can anyone be? I was making more than that in 1981 in a part time job. I started out at $14.00 per hour in 1984 when I bought my first house for $42,000!
He has NO RESPECT for his employees. None.(end quote)
"No. I'm really disagreeing with .. not missing your point. And those numbers don't tell a very accurate story, and the proof is demonstrated by the drop in net worth of middle income earners as their debt has increased significantly, while earnings have declined relative to inflation.
By most measurable data points, the middle income class has been dying a very slow, incremental death for 4 decades because the costs on high ticket items have increased more rapidly than the either the inflation rate or rates of increases in income. To further compound the problem, average income levels have failed to keep pace with the inflation rate itself. Much of this goes unnoticed because of it's slow incremental nature (like growing old). But if you are old enough, and still maintain your mental faculties, you can't be bull $hted into believing what you are trying to say here.
As just one example, in 1977, I bought a brand new Pontiac Trans Am for $5200. And since it was my first car purchase, I suspect I was clubbed like a baby seal (paid full MSRP), as I simply asked how much, and said OK (later I learned the error of this way to purchase automobiles )
Now today, that car is no longer available, but a comparable car "Chevy Camero SS" is. And a similarly configured model is around $35,000 MSRP. Which is almost double the adjusted for inflation number of $18,700 that Camero should cost relative to the $5200 Trans Am of 1977.
My income back then was 14,000 or just shy of 3 times what the car cost ... if you apply that same formula to the $35,000 Camero today, I'd have to earn roughly $100,000 per year to maintain the same standard (drive the same car) as my $14,000 income provided then. I was not wealthy then .. I was a 20 year oldworking in a warehouse driving a forklift. And I don't think there are many 6 figure forklift drivers around today ...I would say, the 40-50K range would be the upper limit ... or roughly the same as my $14,000 would be, adjusted for inflation.
This is one example, and almost any big item ... car, house, etc. works out to be the same. Some other items like Healthcare have dramatically exceeded those rates exponentially compared to 1977 where mine was absolutely free and first rate, including dental.
Now, add to this the higher taxes, social security withholding, and medicare ... all of which have exceeded the inflation rate (and don't let anyone BS you into believing it hasn't), means that the net spending power of your income has declined dramatically over the past 30+ years. (See video below she documents ALL this IN DETAIL)
Now around about that same time frame, my step father worked for one of the US Government agencies earning roughly in the 50-60K range, and at the time, that was very good money, but not even close to RICH & Wealthy .... but adjusted for inflation, that comes out to around $200+K now. The house he purchased then at $50,000 appraised for $480,000 in 2004-5 even though the adjusted for inflation value would have only dictated a $155,000 figure ... 3 times the inflation rate!! By the time he retired in the late 90's, his income may have doubled, yet his house increased by 6-8 fold. What does that tell you?
Now if you are following me here ... this is where it gets real hairy ... if you take a Quarter ... 25 cents ... from say 1964 (the last 90% silver Quarter) that 25 cents equates to $1.76 in 2010 value. But guess what? Today's melt value of that sliver quarter is about $3.70 which is again more than double the published inflation rate ....
So what does that all mean? It means very simply, that the value of your money is worth about half of what it's claimed to be worth, even after being adjusted for inflation .... and all it takes is to actually look at the historical costs of items like cars, and houses and health care costs from the late 60's to today, and also the median incomes. You see that the purchasing power has indeed declined. And this is a result of the devaluation of the currency (a hidden tax).
So when it comes to buying power, there has been a continuous decline that doubles the the inflation rates admitted .. which is why the middle class really doesn't exist for all practical purposes today.
There are the ultra wealthy, and the rest. The $250kers are just at the higher end of that rest of us, and they are the last of the upper middle class, and the next in line to fall ... apparently, much to delight of many who think that they are members of the Wealthy Club, and must fall for the sake of everyone.
I suppose this proves that indeed, misery loves company."(end quote)
"Which is ... I might add .... $17/hr is roughly $6 per hour in 1980 dollars adjusted for inflation, or $12,000 per year. Though that doesn't quite tell the whole story, since there are many costs that have increased way more than 3 fold, which makes me question the inflation calculations today.
For example, a brand new 1980 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 cost about $6,500 in 1980, while a 2013 Camaro SS Coupe runs close to $40,000 ... which is double the calculated inflation rate .... so a person buying a new camaro back then who was making $10/hr in 1980, would have to make $60/hr today, to be in the same financial situation.
That's just one example of many .... my regular bills back then were ... $12 phone, $25 electricity, no cable, no internet, no cell phone .... and rent was $250. My total living expenses (living alone) was less than $300 .. and food costs were about $20 per week, give or take. Gas was about .65 - .75 cents per gal as were cigarettes about .75 .... and you could get a beer in a bar for .50
I never had to juggle bills .... I lived quite well, drove a brand new car, went out on weekends regularly, never had to deny myself anything, and still managed to stash a couple hundred bucks away in a savings account every month ... on $10/hr
Don't try to live that way today ..... people who have no direct experience of what things were like back then, really have no idea how badly they are "taking it" today. No idea!"
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: cool:
$10.50 in '78 or 12 in 2006. Inflation much?"(end quote)
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