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Some of that is the character that we instilled in American youth about such jobs.
This is the consistent message we gave them: "If you end up in a job like that, you are a loser. There is no honor in that kind of job. Your life sucks. You might as well get high and die."
Yeah I remember my father, who would famously quote when I brought home a bad report card, "You're gonna end up in a job where you have a name on your shirt."
People have been claiming there are too many people on the planet since 1800.
Not really. The primary problem we have is distribution of resources. There is enough edible food thrown away every day to feed everyone who is hungry.
Do either of you really want to live on a crowded planet, whether there are enough resources or not? People need to close their legs and zip their flies more often. We really don't need this many people.
You know why life was simple for 30 something back then, its because life was simple. At 30 people were considered middle age or semi-middle age parents who had their life revolved around kids. Now at 30, we are still young, just a hair away from 20s. Still trying to live it up, still single and ready to mingle or married but no kids so ready to have fun. Between fun, work, family, and friends.. its exhausting.
I just came back from our first tent camp with my 20 something cousins. The next day, hubby and I, left early and spent all day recovering from lack of sleep & being outdoor and being bitten by mosquitos. While the 20 something cousins went bike riding, hiking and bounced right back. At 33, I am out and out of shape & I know life would be simpler if I just accepted the traditional life
Life wasn't that much simpler when I was 30 in '92, but things are IMO much harder now for 30 year olds. The article pretty much encompasses the 70's to now, it wasn't 1920. At 30 in the 70's, people were not like in the 1950's, already considered over the hill.
Some of that is the character that we instilled in American youth about such jobs.
This is the consistent message we gave them: "If you end up in a job like that, you are a loser. There is no honor in that kind of job. Your life sucks. You might as well get high and die."
The money almost doesn't matter. Unless an individual has a certain rare spark, the propaganda he has been fed all his life that he's a loser will prevail and he will think and act like a loser, not seeing and making use of the chances he actually has.
The Mexicans coming here don't come with that mindset. That's not a "loser's job" to them, that is a job a man takes when he intends to win.
This reminds me of a guy I knew in my young Air Force days in the early 70s.
Most of us young guys griped about our lives, as young guys in the military usually do. But this guy was always upbeat.
He was a Cajun from a tiny bayou town in Louisiana. He told me that in his town, there was only one main company that employed most of the town's residents. There were two kinds of jobs a man could hold in that company: An "indoor job" or an "outdoor job."
If you had an indoor job, it meant you were one of the town's elite, sitting in an air conditioned office wearing a tie, going home fresh at the end of the day to enjoy your wife and children.
If you had an outdoor job, you were a stevedore working on the docks, "totin' that barge, liftin' that bale," all day long in the humid heat. When you went home, you collapsed on the couch, and that was your life: "Nasty, brutal, and short."
This guy came from an "outdoor job" family. That was the life of this guy's grandfather, his uncles, and his father. He had grown up expecting it to be his life, until he wound up in an Air Force recruiter's office in Baton Rouge.
He wound up a year later in Air Force intelligence, sitting in an air conditioned officer, wearing a tie, working on a computer. He was the first person in his family to have an "indoor job," and his life was fine with him.
I don't agree with you. People who grow up in factory towns. blue collar areas, do not give that message to their kids. It would IMO be elites who would give that message, not the people they grow up with. My entire family outside of myself has always worked blue collar jobs and no one ever called them losers. I just don't see that programming you're talking about.
I don't agree with you. People who grow up in factory towns. blue collar areas, do not give that message to their kids. It would IMO be elites who would give that message, not the people they grow up with. My entire family outside of myself has always worked blue collar jobs and no one ever called them losers. I just don't see that programming you're talking about.
What did your high school guidance counselors tell you? What did your classmates tell you?
If you are 30 right now, that means you were in high school in the early 2000s, when so many blue collar jobs in major were disappearing across America. I know what message was going out. Maybe if you were in a blue collar bubble in blue collar town, it didn't reach you (just as there are still teenagers in coal mining towns today who are still expecting Trump to re-open the coal mines).
If you are thirty now, you're the same age as my daughter, two of my neices, and one of my nephews. I'm totally aware of the message they were getting (ond that I was trying to combat), and they're not elites.
Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 08-08-2018 at 10:37 AM..
What did your high school guidance counselors tell you? What did your classmates tell you?
If you are 30 right now, that means you were in high school in the early 2000s, when so many blue collar jobs in major were disappearing across America. I know what message was going out. Maybe if you were in a blue collar bubble in blue collar town, it didn't reach you (just as there are still teenagers in coal mining towns today who are still expecting Trump to re-open the coal mines).
If you are thirty now, you're the same age as my daughter, two of my neices, and one of my nephews. I'm totally aware of the message they were getting (ond that I was trying to combat), and they're not elites.
I never had any guidance counselor tell me anyone was a loser based on a job. In fact when I went to school, we were "divided" into a college track and a non-college track. I was on the non-college track (I think they asked us to choose but can't remember). No one ever called me a loser, nor anyone else on the track.
I have lived in blue collar areas most of my life, and know many, many people who fit the description given in the OP. These men who can't pass drug tests and don't show up for work, I know many of them still today, they aren't that different from high school. They were doing drugs and cutting classes back then and just never really grew up. They don't want to work. There are a lot of Americans like that if you go to lower income and working class areas (I don't mean poverty stricken areas).
I am older than 30, I am 56. Blue collar jobs disappeared because factories closed and Unions lost power, not because some vague "elites" gave a message that blue collar work was for losers. Many people want blue collar work. My 21 year old great nephew wanted to go to Vo-Tech for high school because he knew college wasn't for him, but there are so many kids that wanted to go they have to use a lottery system and he didn't get picked.
Also, working in a factory is not a career position, this place pays $12-$15 an hour. The people who apply are not normally young people deciding whether they want to spend their lives working factory work. Your theory does nothing to explain why they can't find even middle aged workers who can pass a drug test or who are reliable.
Life wasn't that much simpler when I was 30 in '92, but things are IMO much harder now for 30 year olds. The article pretty much encompasses the 70's to now, it wasn't 1920. At 30 in the 70's, people were not like in the 1950's, already considered over the hill.
As a 29-year-old, I think there was a much greater difference between my grandparents and parents, than between my parents and mine.
I never had any guidance counselor tell me anyone was a loser based on a job. In fact when I went to school, we were "divided" into a college track and a non-college track. I was on the non-college track (I think they asked us to choose but can't remember). No one ever called me a loser, nor anyone else on the track.
I have lived in blue collar areas most of my life, and know many, many people who fit the description given in the OP. These men who can't pass drug tests and don't show up for work, I know many of them still today, they aren't that different from high school. They were doing drugs and cutting classes back then and just never really grew up. They don't want to work. There are a lot of Americans like that if you go to lower income and working class areas (I don't mean poverty stricken areas).
I am older than 30, I am 56. Blue collar jobs disappeared because factories closed and Unions lost power, not because some vague "elites" gave a message that blue collar work was for losers. Many people want blue collar work. My 21 year old great nephew wanted to go to Vo-Tech for high school because he knew college wasn't for him, but there are so many kids that wanted to go they have to use a lottery system and he didn't get picked.
Also, working in a factory is not a career position, this place pays $12-$15 an hour. The people who apply are not normally young people deciding whether they want to spend their lives working factory work. Your theory does nothing to explain why they can't find even middle aged workers who can pass a drug test or who are reliable.
"Working in a factory" could be anything from someone brought in from a temp service doing cleanup to much more sophisticated and professional level work.
My dad is a mechanic for a small pharmaceutical plant. He makes about $30/hr. That's good money here in small town Tennessee. The temps make $10-$12/hr. They have a couple of engineers who are probably doing quite well.
I agree there's a problem with drugs. Dad has worked with many of the permanent employees before. Most everyone smokes marijuana. Some drink heavily. Some of the temps admit to harder drug use. Pills are common throughout the area.
Do either of you really want to live on a crowded planet, whether there are enough resources or not? People need to close their legs and zip their flies more often. We really don't need this many people.
"Working in a factory" could be anything from someone brought in from a temp service doing cleanup to much more sophisticated and professional level work.
My dad is a mechanic for a small pharmaceutical plant. He makes about $30/hr. That's good money here in small town Tennessee. The temps make $10-$12/hr. They have a couple of engineers who are probably doing quite well.
I agree there's a problem with drugs. Dad has worked with many of the permanent employees before. Most everyone smokes marijuana. Some drink heavily. Some of the temps admit to harder drug use. Pills are common throughout the area.
I'm so interested to know what the big motivator for drug use is. Meth is huge here in rural NC and directly (and indirectly) leads to charges preventing these users from being gainfully employed.
What's going on in their head that they feel they need to escape reality? If you only escape mentally, it doesn't fix the physical problem in the real world.
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