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They are kids/families throwing all their chips into the basket of making it in a sport.
This seems to be your biggest, or at least your most frequently voiced, complaint. While I agree there is a phenomenon of a single mother or a father filling his kid's head with dreams of "cashing in" at the expense of studying hard in school, I think it's pretty rare. Probably about as common as a kid who wants to make it big as a rapper and drops out of school to pursue his dream. At least if you want to be a basketball or football player in college you have to stay in school.
This seems to be your biggest, or at least your most frequently voiced, complaint. While I agree there is a phenomenon of a single mother or a father filling his kid's head with dreams of "cashing in" at the expense of studying hard in school, I think it's pretty rare. Probably about as common as a kid who wants to make it big as a rapper and drops out of school to pursue his dream. At least if you want to be a basketball or football player in college you have to stay in school.
Whether they're throwing all of their eggs into the sports basket or not is not really the issue here. The issue is that opportunities to make money through sports is greater now than ever before and people realize it now more than ever. So you see sports programs at the high school level and even younger ages taking on a whole life of their own. They're huge in many cases now. And it's time for schools to stop paying for them.
Nobody's saying there should not be sports. Every single claim you can make in favor of sports I can agree with! However, none of those claims support the idea that sports should be such an integral part of the school system. All of those benefits of sports- teamwork, physical fitness, overcoming adversity- are all great lessons kids can learn...as part of some local club team or sports academy. Not only are sports expensive for schools to fund, they've become so huge in some places that they are really their own separate entity anyway. Kids and their families see the opportunity to earn money (through either college scholarships and/or a professional career) through sports and they will go to extreme lengths to set their kids up for what they feel will be the best shot at that cash. That's oftentimes a bit misguided as many kids/families who think there is money out there for them are in for a rude awakening. But, they have every right to pursue those opportunities. An aspiring football star wants to play for the best team and coaches that will have him? Knock yourself out and go for it. The problem is, when those football programs are tied directly to the school system, there are unintended problems and consequences. Big-time sports programs need to operate on their own, separate from schools. The more casual, less expensive programs can remain on school campuses as extracurricular options for students.
In the US, schools have assumed much of the responsibility for providing athletic facilities and the organization for most sports. In many cases, club sports that exist, use school facilities. Soccer and baseball are two of the few sports have built their own facilities and could survive without school facilities.
Your comment about "college scholarships and/or a professional career" have nothing to do with the original question or the article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyway31
I agree. Now, what about this tells you the school system is obligated to fund these massive programs? Some of these sports programs have become so huge with so much more on the line than those qualities you speak of. Kids want to play on ESPN. They want to vie for athletic scholarships. They want to try to make it to the pros. Schools shouldn't be on the line for financing the kind of massive programs where these grandiose dreams are pursued. There should be sports club programs separate from schools designed specifically for that.
You seem obsessed with the idea of athletic scholarships and professional careers. Most people close to HS sports know that very few athletes will get a full athletic scholarship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyway31
The issue isn't the school offering extracurricular activities for students despite a small percentage of the student body participating in said given activity. The issue arises when mega dollars are involved in funding mega programs to kids trying to make money off of the specific activity. In many cases, these aren't a matter of kids just wanting to be well-rounded and participate in extracurriculars. They are kids/families throwing all their chips into the basket of making it in a sport. They need to do so separate from the school system.
In very large mega high schools, there might be a small percentage of the student body participating but in many schools, a very large percentage are participating and others could be participating if they wanted. Track, cross country, swimming and tennis have have become sports that anyone can participate. My daughter went out for tennis and had never played before her first practice. My other daughter had never played soccer and was a starter her junior and senior year. Swimming, cross country andtrack are coed and have become very social activities. Less than 1% of the athletes are thinking about college scholarships.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyway31
Whether they're throwing all of their eggs into the sports basket or not is not really the issue here. The issue is that opportunities to make money through sports is greater now than ever before and people realize it now more than ever. So you see sports programs at the high school level and even younger ages taking on a whole life of their own. They're huge in many cases now. And it's time for schools to stop paying for them.
Just because there is a lot of money involved with the college sports that are broadcast on TV doesn't mean there are opportunities for high schools or most high school athletes.
There are valid issues to look at changing high school sports. There are major issues surrounding concussions in football at all levels. The potential financial liability for this could end or severely limit school's involvement in the game.
When and if sports are negatively affecting education is another issue that deserves careful study. Sports should not impact education. This can be fixed. Teachers should not be hired strictly on their coaching ability. Students shouldn't be given grades because they're an athlete. These issues can be fixed. Part of the solution might be evaluating how schools are governed and managed. Too many people get elected to local school board with a single issue focus such as wanting to fire the football coach.
I think we are beyond the point of eliminating HS sports. It has too much of a tradition in this country. What are needed are stronger policies that balance the money and emphasis when too much attention is placed on sports.
The issue isn't the school offering extracurricular activities for students despite a small percentage of the student body participating in said given activity. The issue arises when mega dollars are involved in funding mega programs to kids trying to make money off of the specific activity. In many cases, these aren't a matter of kids just wanting to be well-rounded and participate in extracurriculars. They are kids/families throwing all their chips into the basket of making it in a sport. They need to do so separate from the school system.
I don't know how it works where you live, but around here school districts do not fully fund most sports. Teams make money by selling banners, selling discount cards, ticket sales, apparel sales and holding other fundraising activities. Sports budgets have decreased quite a bit in my county over the past few years. That money has been made up by students and parents.
I don't know how it works where you live, but around here school districts do not fully fund most sports. Teams make money by selling banners, selling discount cards, ticket sales, apparel sales and holding other fundraising activities. Sports budgets have decreased quite a bit in my county over the past few years. That money has been made up by students and parents.
It could be different where you live but I am familiar with the schools in Western Pennsylvania and a few are charging a minimal amount for participating in extracurricular activities. The fees are typically around $100/year. Most schools have not done this.
The other item that you refer to is fundraising. This typically pays for things like meals after away games. Fundraising by booster organizations have paid for extras such as coach buses for long road games, warm-ups, and some equipment in the fitness center. It really hasn't lowered the athletic budget much since these costs would not have been incurred.
Whether they're throwing all of their eggs into the sports basket or not is not really the issue here.
Then why do you keep bringing it up?
Quote:
The issue is that opportunities to make money through sports is greater now than ever before and people realize it now more than ever. So you see sports programs at the high school level and even younger ages taking on a whole life of their own. They're huge in many cases now. And it's time for schools to stop paying for them.
Do you only have a problem with certain sports programs that are "huge" and "taking on a whole life of their own"? Is it OK with you if schools pay for inexpensive sports programs like golf that typically have small teams and don't have school-owned facilities? Is it OK for club sports to use school-owned and -maintained facilities or should they have to pay rent?
It could be different where you live but I am familiar with the schools in Western Pennsylvania and a few are charging a minimal amount for participating in extracurricular activities. The fees are typically around $100/year. Most schools have not done this.
The other item that you refer to is fundraising. This typically pays for things like meals after away games. Fundraising by booster organizations have paid for extras such as coach buses for long road games, warm-ups, and some equipment in the fitness center. It really hasn't lowered the athletic budget much since these costs would not have been incurred.
They recently talked about charging participation fees here in Eastern PA, and it went over like a lead balloon at least in my district.
A co-worker just told me each member of her kid's high school hockey team has to cough up $1800.00 to play, plus sell fundraising raflle tickets. Hockey is a special case and is probably more expensive than football.
They recently talked about charging participation fees here in Eastern PA, and it went over like a lead balloon at least in my district.
A co-worker just told me each member of her kid's high school hockey team has to cough up $1800.00 to play, plus sell fundraising raflle tickets. Hockey is a special case and is probably more expensive than football.
Yes, hockey is an exception in PA since it is not a true school sport and is not under the PIAA. I'm not aware of any school districts providing any funding to hockey.
The $1,800 probably only covers ice time and refs. I have never seen a price comparison but hockey would have to be way more expensive than football.
In the US, schools have assumed much of the responsibility for providing athletic facilities and the organization for most sports. In many cases, club sports that exist, use school facilities. Soccer and baseball are two of the few sports have built their own facilities and could survive without school facilities.
Your comment about "college scholarships and/or a professional career" have nothing to do with the original question or the article.
You seem obsessed with the idea of athletic scholarships and professional careers. Most people close to HS sports know that very few athletes will get a full athletic scholarship.
In very large mega high schools, there might be a small percentage of the student body participating but in many schools, a very large percentage are participating and others could be participating if they wanted. Track, cross country, swimming and tennis have have become sports that anyone can participate. My daughter went out for tennis and had never played before her first practice. My other daughter had never played soccer and was a starter her junior and senior year. Swimming, cross country andtrack are coed and have become very social activities. Less than 1% of the athletes are thinking about college scholarships.
Just because there is a lot of money involved with the college sports that are broadcast on TV doesn't mean there are opportunities for high schools or most high school athletes.
There are valid issues to look at changing high school sports. There are major issues surrounding concussions in football at all levels. The potential financial liability for this could end or severely limit school's involvement in the game.
When and if sports are negatively affecting education is another issue that deserves careful study. Sports should not impact education. This can be fixed. Teachers should not be hired strictly on their coaching ability. Students shouldn't be given grades because they're an athlete. These issues can be fixed. Part of the solution might be evaluating how schools are governed and managed. Too many people get elected to local school board with a single issue focus such as wanting to fire the football coach.
I think we are beyond the point of eliminating HS sports. It has too much of a tradition in this country. What are needed are stronger policies that balance the money and emphasis when too much attention is placed on sports.
- Why are schools being forced into this? What is the justification for it?
- The odds of a given athlete getting a scholarship/career etc are indeed very low. Doesn't stop kids and their families from exhausting every avenue to get one. These folks are often delusional. That's why sports are such a big deal. Kids and their parents want glory, and sports is perhaps the most obvious way to get it, even if it's nothing more than getting their picture in the local paper covering the ball game. The point is, let them pursue those delusional dreams on their own outside of the school system.
-I italicized your last sentence because I can agree with it. The trick is getting down into the finer details and uncovering when things are out of hand. Should kids be missing large chunks of class time to travel to games? Should football players' academic schedlule, which features 4 classes in block schedule format, be allowed to have a P.E. and a weight training course (as the elective) each semester...when the teacher of record for both classes is the football coach...who's told the players if they show up, work out etc they are assured of an A...so 1/2 their grades are A's and thus a 2.0 is pretty damn impossible to miss? These are things that need to be addressed.
Do you only have a problem with certain sports programs that are "huge" and "taking on a whole life of their own"? Is it OK with you if schools pay for inexpensive sports programs like golf that typically have small teams and don't have school-owned facilities? Is it OK for club sports to use school-owned and -maintained facilities or should they have to pay rent?
What I'm bringing up is the overemphasis on sports. Plenty of kids will work to do the minimum or just above it academically. They may not put all of their eggs into the sports basket. They're just putting enough of them in that they need to do so outside of school.
Yes, my issue is primarily with the sports that have gotten disproportionately huge. I'm not opposed to school sports per se. I'm opposed to taxpayer/school budget money being allocated to them. I'm opposed to some of the other issues I raised in the post above.
Club/private programs not a part of the school using school facilities should have to pay rent!
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