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Let's not get ahead of ourselves on the public education topic. I went to a public school in rural America and was still able to go to a great engineering school and do very well.
Let me see if I follow your line of reasoning, because you went to a public school, and were able to go on to be an engineer, the whole public education process is fine, and should not be changed, despite the fact that nationally, the countries test scores are below most of the industrialized world. Very Logical.
i do not hold a postive opinion of the public school system. 1st priority is safety, 2nd priority is the literacy and math. it accomplishes neither.
voucher sooner the better. i am having a real problem with the unreported violence in schools both against teachers and students.
i do not hold a postive opinion of the public school system. 1st priority is safety, 2nd priority is the literacy and math. it accomplishes neither.
voucher sooner the better. i am having a real problem with the unreported violence in schools both against teachers and students.
Despite the fact that vouchers would more than likely screw over the people who have the worst problems with public schools?
What will happen to the very poor and the disabled with vouchers? They could not get into the top cherry pickers unless they were very gifted in some way and it is unlikely a voucher would cover a full ride to a private school. They are quite costly and many are beyond what our current money/student ratio is, especially in the problem area of poor districts. Sure I imagine some private schools would be both financially feasible and decent, but more than likely they would be few and far between. The only people vouchers would help are those who are wealthy enough to sent their children to private schools already.
Last edited by Randomstudent; 04-01-2009 at 10:49 AM..
Let me see if I follow your line of reasoning, because you went to a public school, and were able to go on to be an engineer, the whole public education process is fine, and should not be changed, despite the fact that nationally, the countries test scores are below most of the industrialized world. Very Logical.
I went to public school...as did many other successful Americans. My question to you is: How did I succeed where so many others failed?
I went to school with a bunch of foreigners. And let me tell you, I was hard pressed to see how these people who were supposed to be superior to me were actually any smarter. I frequently helped some of the Indian kids with their FORTRAN coding....because they didn't get it.
You want to be logical? How about this. We have been granted an extremely grand opportunity as citizens of this country and I see a bunch of lazy b@5tards who don't know how to take advantage of it. I see kids who could really care less about school...and their parents think they share no responsibility for their education. They lay it all on the system and are quick to call teachers 'poor educators'. Man, I've got a neighbor who's kid is dumb as a post, clearly has ADD, is a compulsive liar, displays violent tendencies, etc...I could go on but you get my point...AND SHE LAYS IT ALL ON HIS TEACHER AND THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.
You know what I think? I think people need to step up and if their kids aren't cutting the mustard they need to crack that whip! They need to get involved. They need to give a rat's @55! That's what made the difference for me. You think I ever brought home a 'C' and expected to be congratulated? I see this crap all the time. "Congratulations....you passed!" WTF????? If my kids bring home a 'C' in my house they should expect an @55 ripping from both me and my wife. They will be grounded from everything including daylight! They will learn to value the education they receive and they will learn it is the only way they will ever get anywhere in this life.
Edit/Addition: I think our culture has gotten lazy and have developed a sense of entitlement to a certain extent. I think this is where a lot of problems come from. If people would wake the f up and realize that they aren't entitled to squat and that they have to work for it to get it maybe that would turn things around. I don't see it happening until the system really collapses.
Last edited by drjones96; 04-01-2009 at 11:02 AM..
Let me see if I follow your line of reasoning, because you went to a public school, and were able to go on to be an engineer, the whole public education process is fine, and should not be changed, despite the fact that nationally, the countries test scores are below most of the industrialized world. Very Logical.
I think he is inferring that everyone is getting a little carried away with bashing the public school system (at least I am saying that). Sure, it has problems, but reading your original post I would have thought it impossible to succeed in this world if you went to a public school.
I work with people from all over the world (mostly engineers) and let me tell you, if their country has better test scores than we do they waste a lot of time studying for nothing Not saying they are not bright, but they have their share of bad apples.
And to your OP and your comment about CD posters, please remember that you could be arguing with a 10 y/o, English could be their second language, and they could be trolls
I still have not read examples of what would cause you to hate the school system that badly. If you would have worded your OP differently you might have been able to start a thread with meaningful dicussions as to what we could do to change the system. I will start by saying we should ship our kids to these countries with their great education system, outstading tests scores, and bring them back here for college so they can then become "real" doctor's, engineers, professors
Sorry, but I have not read any posts that lead me to believe you care one bit about solving the issue and care more about bashing other's opinion for the sake of argument.
I went to public school...as did many other successful Americans. My question to you is: How did I succeed where so many others failed?
I went to school with a bunch of foreigners. And let me tell you, I was hard pressed to see how these people who were supposed to be superior to me were actually any smarter. I frequently helped some of the Indian kids with their FORTRAN coding....because they didn't get it.
You want to be logical? How about this. We have been granted an extremely grand opportunity as citizens of this country and I see a bunch of lazy b@5tards who don't know how to take advantage of it. I see kids who could really care less about school...and their parents think they share no responsibility for their education. They lay it all on the system and are quick to call teachers 'poor educators'. Man, I've got a neighbor who's kid is dumb as a post, clearly has ADD, is a compulsive liar, displays violent tendencies, etc...I could go on but you get my point...AND SHE LAYS IT ALL ON HIS TEACHER AND THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.
You know what I think? I think people need to step up and if their kids aren't cutting the mustard they need to crack that whip! They need to get involved. They need to give a rat's @55! That's what made the difference for me. You think I ever brought home a 'C' and expected to be congratulated? I see this crap all the time. "Congratulations....you passed!" WTF????? If my kids bring home a 'C' in my house they should expect an @55 ripping from both me and my wife. They will be grounded from everything including daylight! They will learn to value the education they receive and they will learn it is the only way they will ever get anywhere in this life.
Edit/Addition: I think our culture has gotten lazy and have developed a sense of entitlement to a certain extent. I think this is where a lot of problems come from. If people would wake the f up and realize that they aren't entitled to squat and that they have to work for it to get it maybe that would turn things around. I don't see it happening until the system really collapses.
I liked your post.... I've been trying to say the say same thing to the public school bashers over on the C-D "Why would you homeschool thread" (though perhaps more delicately ). My H.S. was filled w/gangs, drugs, teen pregnancy, high drop-out rate, and very low test scores. Only a small handful even attended college. Yet I managed to go to a great grad school and own an engineering business. Why? GOOD PARENTING.
Of course there are many ways to improve public schools but I also grow wary of everyone blaming public schooling (and big govt., Wall Street, large corporations, blah, blah, blah) for their own lack of intellectual initiative and work ethic.
I went to public school...as did many other successful Americans. My question to you is: How did I succeed where so many others failed?
I went to school with a bunch of foreigners. And let me tell you, I was hard pressed to see how these people who were supposed to be superior to me were actually any smarter. I frequently helped some of the Indian kids with their FORTRAN coding....because they didn't get it.
You want to be logical? How about this. We have been granted an extremely grand opportunity as citizens of this country and I see a bunch of lazy b@5tards who don't know how to take advantage of it. I see kids who could really care less about school...and their parents think they share no responsibility for their education. They lay it all on the system and are quick to call teachers 'poor educators'. Man, I've got a neighbor who's kid is dumb as a post, clearly has ADD, is a compulsive liar, displays violent tendencies, etc...I could go on but you get my point...AND SHE LAYS IT ALL ON HIS TEACHER AND THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.
You know what I think? I think people need to step up and if their kids aren't cutting the mustard they need to crack that whip! They need to get involved. They need to give a rat's @55! That's what made the difference for me. You think I ever brought home a 'C' and expected to be congratulated? I see this crap all the time. "Congratulations....you passed!" WTF????? If my kids bring home a 'C' in my house they should expect an @55 ripping from both me and my wife. They will be grounded from everything including daylight! They will learn to value the education they receive and they will learn it is the only way they will ever get anywhere in this life.
Edit/Addition: I think our culture has gotten lazy and have developed a sense of entitlement to a certain extent. I think this is where a lot of problems come from. If people would wake the f up and realize that they aren't entitled to squat and that they have to work for it to get it maybe that would turn things around. I don't see it happening until the system really collapses.
I agree with everything you have written here, and that same lazy culture and sense of entitlement has infected the educational system along with the rest of our culture. The reason I singled the educational system out in the beginning, is it is the place that change must begin. Without and educated population we are subject to the type of manipulation you are seeing now from Big Business and Government. Our freedoms, our prosperity and our very way of life is in real jeopardy. We have been living off the hard work and sacrifice of past generations and now we have squandered our inheritance. It is time to take a good hard look at ourselves and begin to start holding peoples feet to the fire and demanding they do their jobs. Not just the educational system but everyone. The educational system is no more guilty than the rest of us, it is just that their role in this problem is more important.
What is salient in colleges is the abstract and cryptic manner of teaching from a sizable amount of teachers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom
After participating in this forum for some years I have come to the conclusion that a great number of the posters here are incapable of rational and logical thought. They take 2+2 and believe the solution is 7. The question that begs to be answered is how did they get that way? My conclusion is that it is the public school system. The abstract teachings that pass for education, has created a populous that does not understand the basic fundamentals that are the building blocks of true knowledge. They do not understand history, they have no concept of philosophy, they cannot follow a simply line of reasoning, Most struggle with simple math, or constructing a sentence. They are unable to understand the basics of economics, and why we are in the trouble that we are. They believe the same government that has caused our problems is somehow the solution
I remember not learning anything in math class until I would get in touch with a tutor. Then it wasn't so hard at all. The teachers never did anything for me, except teach in cryptic ways. Also I found it annoying when you had to solve math problems on the board, as if everybody wants to do that or learn that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948
i do not hold a postive opinion of the public school system. 1st priority is safety, 2nd priority is the literacy and math. it accomplishes neither.
voucher sooner the better. i am having a real problem with the unreported violence in schools both against teachers and students.
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Not saying they are not bright, but they have their share of bad apples.
