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There are a few things I don't understand about this whole view-changing criticism (I don't use the term "flip-flopping" because it implies a back and forth motion; all I've seen with Gov. Romney is shifting to the right).
The first: why doesn't Rick Perry get even more criticism for the same issue? He was a Democrat. He campaigned for Al Gore. Isn't that essentially changing stances on every major issue?
Mitt Romney was once an independent and Ron Paul was a Libertarian at one point, and there are many examples of successful politicians whose views changed for whatever reason.
The second: what are you actually afraid of? Do you think his history of moving from moderate to conservative stances is going to have much of an impact on the policies he tries to enact? Are you afraid he's going to revert back to his old positions? That would be political suicide. The man's not retarded; he knows he needs conservative support to be president, to get there, to stay there, and to be successful there. I'm sick of people acting like a candidate's platform should never change. Being president isn't the same as being the governor of Texas or a senator for Arizona. I see nothing wrong with someone re-prioritizing their values in order to accommodate a radically different electorate, which is certainly the case with Romney.
There are a few things I don't understand about this whole view-changing criticism (I don't use the term "flip-flopping" because it implies a back and forth motion; all I've seen with Gov. Romney is shifting to the right).
The first: why doesn't Rick Perry get even more criticism for the same issue? He was a Democrat. He campaigned for Al Gore. Isn't that essentially changing stances on every major issue?
Mitt Romney was once an independent and Ron Paul was a Libertarian at one point, and there are many examples of successful politicians whose views changed for whatever reason.
The second: what are you actually afraid of? Do you think his history of moving from moderate to conservative stances is going to have much of an impact on the policies he tries to enact? Are you afraid he's going to revert back to his old positions? That would be political suicide. The man's not retarded; he knows he needs conservative support to be president, to get there, to stay there, and to be successful there. I'm sick of people acting like a candidate's platform should never change. Being president isn't the same as being the governor of Texas or a senator for Arizona. I see nothing wrong with someone re-prioritizing their values in order to accommodate a radically different electorate, which is certainly the case with Romney.
Exactly! It's nothing more than the same tired smear campaign.
Maybe watch, shake my head and laugh might be more appropriate. I could care less who you claim to be--anybody can pretend to be anyone on the internet, and if you really did have some sort of professional affiliation, it's doubtful that you'd even allude to that can of worms here. Sorry kiddo--I'm basing my conclusions on what you're trying to pass as logic.
As far as Romney and independents--we're a year out from the elections? Remember? Are you following me? A year in politics is a lifetime.
How Romney polls right now with independents doesn't matter all that much because A) most independents don't pay really close attention to early primary debates because they usually don't vote in primaries. They don't belong to a party. In a number of states they can't vote in the primary without affiliation.
B) Romney hasn't had much thrown at him...yet. I will say he's been smart to stay low while the other candidates hash it out among themselves. He's taken very few hits so far (Perry started going after him when Perry thought he and Romney would be duking it out for the nomination, but Perry obviously has other problems now).
Independent voters don't care about party, but they do care about personality and character. When the other side starts throwing the "flip flop" stuff, the "corporations are people too" he's going to be in a world of hurt with character focused voters. He's shown a little more fire in the belly lately, but he hasn't been a charismatic man in the past. I'm really concerned that he's going to be the R John Kerry--he's an easy target--and don't believe for a minute that the D's wont go after him with everything they've got, let alone who ever his competition is for the R nomination.
I wish we had a decent choice in this election
And here is a newsflash for you sweetie...I could care less what you think! What you think is not a biggie to anyone but you! We all have our opinions and are entitled to them. You go cheer for whoever it is you think best suits you and I will continue to do what I want and think what I want to think. What will be will be no matter what either one of us thinks in the long run of things.
Maybe watch, shake my head and laugh might be more appropriate. I could care less who you claim to be--anybody can pretend to be anyone on the internet, and if you really did have some sort of professional affiliation, it's doubtful that you'd even allude to that can of worms here. Sorry kiddo--I'm basing my conclusions on what you're trying to pass as logic.
As far as Romney and independents--we're a year out from the elections? Remember? Are you following me? A year in politics is a lifetime.
How Romney polls right now with independents doesn't matter all that much because A) most independents don't pay really close attention to early primary debates because they usually don't vote in primaries. They don't belong to a party. In a number of states they can't vote in the primary without affiliation.
B) Romney hasn't had much thrown at him...yet. I will say he's been smart to stay low while the other candidates hash it out among themselves. He's taken very few hits so far (Perry started going after him when Perry thought he and Romney would be duking it out for the nomination, but Perry obviously has other problems now).
Independent voters don't care about party, but they do care about personality and character. When the other side starts throwing the "flip flop" stuff, the "corporations are people too" he's going to be in a world of hurt with character focused voters. He's shown a little more fire in the belly lately, but he hasn't been a charismatic man in the past. I'm really concerned that he's going to be the R John Kerry--he's an easy target--and don't believe for a minute that the D's wont go after him with everything they've got, let alone who ever his competition is for the R nomination.
I wish we had a decent choice in this election
You're 'Spot on', mb! - Excellent foresight. We have fickel, inept, unfit for POTUSA choices. You are very correct. No decent choice!
I doubt it. Romney is doing well, so this is just another meme the MSM will push, that people won't let him live something down.
All politicians are flip-floppers. It's the nature of the beast. And they do it because the American public flip-flops on the direction they want to go.
Ron Paul plays well to a small, hard core audience of fans, and I'm not knocking the man, but most people don't want a hard core ideologue. They want a politician with a certain flexibility, which will naturally lead to charges of flip-flopping by people looking to score points.
no, they don't want "flexibility".
they want a leader with a vision.
we are getting dangerous close to a tipping point in this country, and NOBODY will like it when it happens.
here are the statistics to back it up:
Little to say here: total debt is now at, obviously, a new record high of $14,856,859,498,405.73, which is a $20 billion increase overnight, $67 billion in the past two days, and $162 billion in the last three days. We will repeat the last part: total US debt has increased by $162 billion in three days. Please carry on.
here's an idea how much money that actually is (from nathan's)
What $163 BILLION buys -
11 Ford class CVN aircraft carriers and planes. ~75 B-2 stealth bombers. 8000+ Apache helicopters. 38,000 M-1 Abrams battle tanks. 3.5 MILLION MAN-MADE YEARS OF LABOR (median income 2010, $46K)
Sort of drives the point home how MUCH $$ this government is p****** away
and this:
The 2010 Index results dramatically underscore Heritage’s concerns of years past. According to The Heritage Foundation’s Center for Data Analysis (CDA):
The Index of Dependence on Government grew by 13.6 percent in 2009; (IN ONE YEAR)
The Index variables that moved the most over that past year were
– Health care and welfare at 22 percent,
– Rural and agricultural services at 20 percent, and
– Housing at 15 percent;
The increase from last year means that the Index has grown by 49 percent just since 2001;
The Index begins in 1962 and has increased by more than 14 times over the intervening 47 years through 2009;
This rapid growth of the Index has been accompanied by a rapid increase in the percentage of people who do not pay taxes. The percentage of people who do not pay federal income taxes themselves, and who are not claimed as dependents by someone who pays federal income taxes, jumped from 14.8 percent in 1984 to 43.6 percent in 2008. Counted this way, in 1984, 34.8 million tax filers paid no taxes; in 2008, 132.5 million paid nothing.
It is the conjunction of these two trends—higher spending on dependence-creating programs and an ever-shrinking number of taxpayers who pay for these programs—that worries those interested in the fate of the American form of government.
wake up america.
Last edited by floridasandy; 10-06-2011 at 04:48 AM..
in JUST the past 3 years:
In the past three years, Congress has routinely expanded the eligibility and benefits of these programs. In fact, Medicaid recipients have increased 17 percent to 50 million. As a result, the federal Medicaid price tag has increased 36 percent to $273 billion. Since the recession began, food stamps beneficiaries increased by nearly 50 PERCENT to 40 million.
The expansion of the program has cost taxpayers $70 billion—an increase of 80 percent. Additionally, more than 4.4 million people are dependent on welfare which has increased by 18 percent since 2007. Certainly, increased welfare eligibility has increased the cost of the program by 24 percent to $22 billion.
Due to media attention, Americans are well aware that Congress has extended unemployment benefits eight times. Currently, 10 million Americans are dependent on unemployment benefits which is four times higher than 2007. The cost of jobless benefits have risen to $160 billion from $43 billion—a 272 percent increase.
There are a few things I don't understand about this whole view-changing criticism (I don't use the term "flip-flopping" because it implies a back and forth motion; all I've seen with Gov. Romney is shifting to the right).
The first: why doesn't Rick Perry get even more criticism for the same issue? He was a Democrat. He campaigned for Al Gore. Isn't that essentially changing stances on every major issue?
Mitt Romney was once an independent and Ron Paul was a Libertarian at one point, and there are many examples of successful politicians whose views changed for whatever reason.
The second: what are you actually afraid of? Do you think his history of moving from moderate to conservative stances is going to have much of an impact on the policies he tries to enact? Are you afraid he's going to revert back to his old positions? That would be political suicide. The man's not retarded; he knows he needs conservative support to be president, to get there, to stay there, and to be successful there. I'm sick of people acting like a candidate's platform should never change. Being president isn't the same as being the governor of Texas or a senator for Arizona. I see nothing wrong with someone re-prioritizing their values in order to accommodate a radically different electorate, which is certainly the case with Romney.
He has gotten some flack because he was a Democrat and some of his views are anything but conservative as we have seen, but there is a difference in how many see Romney's changes and Perry's plus Perry's allignment with the Democratic party was 20 plus years ago. Many of us, as we mature see things differently. We could name many politicians that have switched from one party to another. You mention being PRes isn't the same as being governmor of a large state or a senator. Doesn't this apply to Romney as well. It would be impossible for any candidate running to know exactly what it is like to be Pres, they haven't been there. I am not taking sides as to how much Romeny has or hasn't flip flopped, but to your reasoning.
And here is a newsflash for you sweetie...I could care less what you think! What you think is not a biggie to anyone but you! We all have our opinions and are entitled to them. You go cheer for whoever it is you think best suits you and I will continue to do what I want and think what I want to think. What will be will be no matter what either one of us thinks in the long run of things.
Then back your opinions up with logic and facts vs. making childish and snarky remarks to people you disagree with. Try to convince someone why your point is right. That's what politics is--a debate over ideas and directions. People disagree--the goal is to explain your position clearly and logically. I may not agree with lots of people, but if they can explain and justify their opinion I can respect it, and them. Saying you don't like me isn't going to change anyone's mind on an issue you care about.
There are a few things I don't understand about this whole view-changing criticism (I don't use the term "flip-flopping" because it implies a back and forth motion; all I've seen with Gov. Romney is shifting to the right).
The first: why doesn't Rick Perry get even more criticism for the same issue? He was a Democrat. He campaigned for Al Gore. Isn't that essentially changing stances on every major issue?
Mitt Romney was once an independent and Ron Paul was a Libertarian at one point, and there are many examples of successful politicians whose views changed for whatever reason.
The second: what are you actually afraid of? Do you think his history of moving from moderate to conservative stances is going to have much of an impact on the policies he tries to enact? Are you afraid he's going to revert back to his old positions? That would be political suicide. The man's not retarded; he knows he needs conservative support to be president, to get there, to stay there, and to be successful there. I'm sick of people acting like a candidate's platform should never change. Being president isn't the same as being the governor of Texas or a senator for Arizona. I see nothing wrong with someone re-prioritizing their values in order to accommodate a radically different electorate, which is certainly the case with Romney.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I guess my biggest concern is that I want to know who I'm voting for--it's about voting for a person with character. I'm in my 50s--my views on many issues are very different now than when I was a young woman--for instance, I've moved from prochoice to prolife as well. I understand change with time and maturity. I can also explain why I came to change those views.
With Romney (and evidently Perry too, although he's going nowhere) it's different. Romney is 64. He was my age when he was promoting some really liberal viewpoints. Suddenly, when he has to play to a national audience, he does a 180 on nearly every major issue to appeal to a more conservative base. By the time you hit middle age, you usually have a pretty clear sense of who you are and what you believe. You know yourself, and you've built a belief system. This huge change, at this point in his life, isn't ringing true to me, or lots of other people.
I'm a moderate R. I don't have a problem with more liberal viewpoints on social issues and some economic issues (I'm a Huntsman supporter) and I expect more conservative responses from most R's. Romney's positions don't bother me--it's the 180 he's made. What I really care about most is making sure we have a smart, ethical, principled person running the country--I'm tired of people in government just being in it for themselves, or being bought and sold by the highest bidder. I personally don't trust that the Romney we see is the person he really is. I also think the D's are going to rip him to shreds.
Last edited by mb1547; 10-06-2011 at 08:06 AM..
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