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There is no difference in what should be "affordable" for the non productive *a non working
semi healthy 70 year old, and what should be an "affordable" insurance premium for the working productive tax payer. An old person's life/health is no more valuable than any one else. Neither is a disabled
child's/adult from that of a healthy one. We don't need a "different system for folks in their 60's or folks in their 70's or folks in their 20's or folks in their 40's. We need one system - one pool - one payer.
If you want to "emotionalize" an insurance payment, that's one thing, but if you want to be fiscally
responsible/sound, then a single payer system is the only solution.
There is NO ONE that can prove a single payer system would cost America more than what we
have now. If you love Ryan so much... prove to me, why anyone should subsidize
your father or anyone else for that matter. Cause guess what, no one on that list, is more special than another. Not a damn one of um....
All for one, or one for all.
I don't "love" Ryan. I have tremendous respect for him for making proposals that are so politically risky, but I don't agree with all of them. As far as whether my dad and everyone else receiving these benefits is "entitled" to them, they have paid into these funds for 4-5 decades, so I don't necessarily consider it "subsidization."
I do not agree with a single payer system. What I would like to see is a large effort to reduce medical costs, by shifting care from emergency rooms to clinics whenever possible, reducing the length of patents on drugs from 20 to - say - 7 years or so, having more co-pays be based on a percentage of what a service or procedure costs, having higher deductibles, eliminating employer-provided health insurance so that health insurance companies can compete for customers in a free market (most people have no idea how much health insurance costs their employers; if more people were paying the costs themselves, in addition to insurance companies competing for individuals' and families' business, people would demand the costs come down), increasing collection efforts when people who are uninsured go to the ER and don't pay their bills (yes, many can't pay, but there are some who can), etc.
I would also favor a high-risk pool for those who insurers are unwilling to insure, as well as maintaining some kind of government-funded program for seniors - at least for older seniors and seniors with serious conditions.
Oh, you must be in the "unsustainable benefits forever" camp. Watch out for arithmetic if Obama actually gets re-elected.
Do you really know what's not sustainable?
It's not sustainable for the vast majority of the uberwealthy to not be paying their fair share in taxes.
It's not sustainable to have a military industrial complex that is bigger than the rest of the world's combined.
It's not sustainable for schumks like Romney to enrich themselves by closing down enterprises and shipping the jobs overseas.
It's not sustainable for America to consume far more than it produces month after month, year after year.
It's not sustainable to have the largest component of the economy, {Heathcare} to be a profit oriented industry where trillions of dollars are wasted because of it. Gouging, fraud to the max, third parties that add not one single iota to healthcare or outcomes reaping all the gravy off the top.
It's funny thing that all these unsustainable things that are driving America to it's kneees never get any mention from the GOP.These things,if reformed would interfere with "The rights of Kings" and that is ALL the GOP cares one single whit about!!!!!
It's not sustainable for the vast majority of the uberwealthy to not be paying their fair share in taxes.
They pay a far higher percentage of the taxes in the US than anyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow
It's not sustainable for schumks like Romney to enrich themselves by closing down enterprises and shipping the jobs overseas.
Ummm...you all love to fixate on some jobs he may have shipped overseas to make companies profitable. What you ignore is that, without doing so, the companies would have failed and everyone working there would have lost their jobs. Furthermore, you all ignore the countless jobs that he created. I'm sure everyone working at Steel Dynamics, Staples, Sports Authority, Domino's, etc., etc., etc. is very happy to have their jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow
It's not sustainable to have the largest component of the economy, {Heathcare} to be a profit oriented industry where trillions of dollars are wasted because of it. Gouging, fraud to the max, third parties that add not one single iota to healthcare or outcomes reaping all the gravy off the top.
Proper competition - and the healthcare industry actually operating in somewhat of a free market - would bring healthcare costs down.
It's not sustainable for the vast majority of the uberwealthy to not be paying their fair share in taxes.
It's not sustainable to have a military industrial complex that is bigger than the rest of the world's combined.
It's not sustainable for schumks like Romney to enrich themselves by closing down enterprises and shipping the jobs overseas.
It's not sustainable for America to consume far more than it produces month after month, year after year.
It's not sustainable to have the largest component of the economy, {Heathcare} to be a profit oriented industry where trillions of dollars are wasted because of it. Gouging, fraud to the max, third parties that add not one single iota to healthcare or outcomes reaping all the gravy off the top.
It's funny thing that all these unsustainable things that are driving America to it's kneees never get any mention from the GOP.These things,if reformed would interfere with "The rights of Kings" and that is ALL the GOP cares one single whit about!!!!!
The original progressives like LaFollette believed everyone,including the poor,should contribute to the tax system. It's not sutainable to have this continue.
It's not sutainable to have a 50% increase in food stamps since 2009.
It's not sustainable to have people getting unemployment for more than 99 weeks.
They pay a far higher percentage of the taxes in the US than anyone else.
They pay a misreable little pittance of a % compared to the middle class. Just ask Warren Buffet's secretary. They are paying the least % of tax they have paid in many decades and these traitors still do nothing but moan, complain and gripe.
Ummm...you all love to fixate on some jobs he may have shipped overseas to make companies profitable. What you ignore is that, without doing so, the companies would have failed and everyone working there would have lost their jobs. Furthermore, you all ignore the countless jobs that he created. I'm sure everyone working at Steel Dynamics, Staples, Sports Authority, Domino's, etc., etc., etc. is very happy to have their jobs.
If you knew anything at all about corporate raiding you would not make this statement. They do what they do to make $$$$ and lots of it. If thousands of American's livelyhoods and hundreds of American communities are ruined because of it, OH WELL that's how it goes in the free market.
Proper competition - and the healthcare industry actually operating in somewhat of a free market - would bring healthcare costs down.
Nothing but the wholesale and absolute rejection of the entire model will help.
these benefits is "entitled" to them, they have paid into these funds for 4-5 decades, so I don't necessarily consider it "subsidization."
I would also favor a high-risk pool for those who insurers are unwilling to insure.
It most certainly is subsidized. What do you think Medicare Part C is all about...
We already have a high risk pool for those who insurers are unwilling to insure - it's called Medicare
and Medicaid and Prison care, and VA care, and the list goes on.
Single payer health insurance is NOT the dirty word. Paul Ryan's health care reform bill is.
Dirty dancing around the issue. Favoring Ryan's plan is like the unreal notion of only paying for a scraped knee. It would have NO FISCAL IMPACT on the LONG TERM.
The only one that would; a national single payer health insurance system.
Folks that support anything less, REALLY...
Sure, you can support Ryan's health care reforms all you want - just don't call it health care reform.
Same goes for Obamacare.
It's not sustainable for the vast majority of the uberwealthy to not be paying their fair share in taxes.
It's not sustainable to have a military industrial complex that is bigger than the rest of the world's combined.
It's not sustainable for schumks like Romney to enrich themselves by closing down enterprises and shipping the jobs overseas.
It's not sustainable for America to consume far more than it produces month after month, year after year.
It's not sustainable to have the largest component of the economy, {Heathcare} to be a profit oriented industry where trillions of dollars are wasted because of it. Gouging, fraud to the max, third parties that add not one single iota to healthcare or outcomes reaping all the gravy off the top.
It's funny thing that all these unsustainable things that are driving America to it's kneees never get any mention from the GOP.These things,if reformed would interfere with "The rights of Kings" and that is ALL the GOP cares one single whit about!!!!!
What's not sustainable is BS thinking that what you've posted is in the least bit accurate or part of realville.
It's not sustainable for the vast majority of the uberwealthy to not be paying their fair share in taxes.
It's not sustainable to have a military industrial complex that is bigger than the rest of the world's combined.
It's not sustainable for schumks like Romney to enrich themselves by closing down enterprises and shipping the jobs overseas.
It's not sustainable for America to consume far more than it produces month after month, year after year.
It's not sustainable to have the largest component of the economy, {Heathcare} to be a profit oriented industry where trillions of dollars are wasted because of it. Gouging, fraud to the max, third parties that add not one single iota to healthcare or outcomes reaping all the gravy off the top.
It's funny thing that all these unsustainable things that are driving America to it's kneees never get any mention from the GOP.These things,if reformed would interfere with "The rights of Kings" and that is ALL the GOP cares one single whit about!!!!!
So,
I'm in the 5% that pays 58% of ALL federal income taxes. How much did you want us to pay, 70% of the total, 80% of the total, 100% of the total? I wouldn't ever want to feel sheepish about not pulling my weight, but I can't imagine anyone thinking 58% of ALL federal income tax dollars collected isn't enough for 5% to pay. Shoot, when I was a kid I paid income taxes, when I was poor I paid income taxes, when I was lower income I paid income taxes. Now there's not enough of us left paying taxes and you are crying and crying that I should pay more?
You have a pretty gross misunderstanding of business if you think that anybody seeks riches in business by doing anything other than helping it grow and prosper. No private equity guys ever got their hands on a healthy, profitable, well-running company and wrecked it--their business is to get into struggling situations where companies have large challenges and need resources to try to make their way. Where does Staples fit into your tale of Romney's business practices? Bain took on shipwrecks and couldn't save them all.
The gouging and fraud in the health care system is about 90% due to the nationalization of health care financing by the federal government under Medicare. A market-based system would NEVER pay $2400 for $400 wheelchairs, as the Medicare gravy train does. Ryan's plan, apart from all other considerations, would dramatically reduce fraud and abuse.
Romney/Ryan 2012.
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