Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-11-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 61,041,289 times
Reputation: 101093

Advertisements

I noticed, when I lived in Europe, that just like American cars, there are excellent quality European cars, and cheaper, less quality models as well.

No fair comparing a Mercedes SL class convertible to a Ford Focus!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-11-2012, 05:50 PM
 
Location: The Old Dominion
774 posts, read 1,695,025 times
Reputation: 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post
I've noticed this is a common theme in your posts. You think that corporate forces wield enormous amounts of power over the credulous American public, seemingly to the point of determining their decisions for them. This may be true in part, but Americans still have free will, and consumers more often dictate what they want to the corporations rather than the other way around. The American (and European) economies are based on the free market, after all. Let me provide you an example:

Let's say that I am the married father of three children, school-age, and looking for a vehicle. I want them to have ample room, even if they decide to bring a friend or two along. My oldest is also into youth hockey, and my middle daughter is beginning softball, and my wife is responsible for transporting food, beverages, and party favors to practices and events. I also have a motorized fishing boat, which I tow to various lakes. What am I going to choose? A Ford Escort (rated the UK's top family car)? Or a Chevy Suburban or Ford Expedition?
Weird how merkins got along so well for decades before the ascent of the SUV, and on average their families were larger then. Larger in the sense of having more members, not in being fatter. They're fatter now of course. Which leads to my other point: merkins drive SUVs because they're fat, and it's too much trouble to hoist their carcasses in and out of regular vehicles. SUVs offer walk-in and walk-out convenience. Or should I say 'waddle'
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2012, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 61,041,289 times
Reputation: 101093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archguy View Post
Weird how merkins got along so well for decades before the ascent of the SUV, and on average their families were larger then. Larger in the sense of having more members, not in being fatter. They're fatter now of course. Which leads to my other point: merkins drive SUVs because they're fat, and it's too much trouble to hoist their carcasses in and out of regular vehicles. SUVs offer walk-in and walk-out convenience. Or should I say 'waddle'
So why don't the Dutch and the Germans drive more SUVs and minivans? They're pretty big, hefty people!

Let me clarify something for you.

Americans have nice, wide roads - AND side streets - AND country lanes.

Americans have cheaper gas.

Americans have more kids.

Hell, Americans have more large dogs!

Americans drive more, so comfort and multiple usages for vehicles is more important to us.

Those are generalities.

Now for the specifics in my case:

I refinish furniture - also do a lot of landscaping. I need an SUV to haul that stuff around, not to mention hauling around my two 70 pound dogs. Tried it with a Lexus sedan - but got tired of cleaning muck out of the floorboard of a luxury car. Also, my dogs prefer to lie down comfortably when they're riding with me.

My husband works in the oilfield and needs his very large 4 wheel drive truck for his work. He also tried using a smaller vehicle, and traded it in after one year because it simply wasn't workable in two feet of mud and snow.

Hey - did you notice that none of those reasons included anything to do with body mass? AMAZING and yet TRUE!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 12:06 AM
 
310 posts, read 1,025,798 times
Reputation: 241
Thank you for your input everyone. Here is my conclusion:

We Americans drive bigger cars, simply because of the nature of our highway system. Very under-maintained and unsafe. We often drive alongside very large tractor-trailers going very fast. This almost necessitates a safer vehicle than a small hatchback or other type car, unless you live in a city where all that can be avoided.

And I would say that pickup trucks are used more here because of work. I live near an area where people are ranchers, and they must tow horse trailers and cattle trailers and the like to take their livestock to auction. This necessitates a vehicle with very great towing capacity.

I suppose that in Europe the population is concentrated in cities rather than the country, so therefore, pickup trucks are a rather foolish choice for a vehicle.

I do find SUV's a waste. I wish we drove more wagons instead. Although the newer crossovers fill this niche nicely.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Monnem Germany/ from San Diego
2,296 posts, read 3,127,783 times
Reputation: 4796
The farmers and ranchers here just use their tractors to haul stuff around. Always seem to get stuck behind one when I am late to work!

Normal tradesmen and such will almost always have a Mercedes Sprinter, Fiat Ducato or something similar which hold at least as much as a pickup and will tow a trailer ok. I don´t know if the population is anymore concentrated in citys, the distances are not as great as in the US but small villages are evreywhere and often quite far from the city.

Gardners seem to like small pickups or sometimes Unimogs. Full sized pickups here are really only being driven just for fun mostly by those who are into American stuff, bikers...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 08:40 AM
 
Location: The Old Dominion
774 posts, read 1,695,025 times
Reputation: 1186
Default Ride your bike

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
So why don't the Dutch and the Germans drive more SUVs and minivans? They're pretty big, hefty people!

Let me clarify something for you.
If you think Dutch & Germans are anywhere near as fat as merkins, you need to clarify something for yourself.
Use the internet, I believe it's handy just now.

Quote:
Americans have cheaper gas.
Not if you factor in the cost of their endless, counterproductive wars.

Quote:
Hey - did you notice that none of those reasons included anything to do with body mass? AMAZING and yet TRUE!
Touched a nerve, that was fun
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 12:40 PM
 
8,636 posts, read 9,150,939 times
Reputation: 5993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Ah! This is my point exactly! You're perceiving your choices as being limited to SUV's. Which really aren't that roomy, and certainly not as fuel efficient as the nice roomy vehicles families used to use before heavy trucks were advertised as family vehicles. Remember the mini-van? Those are still being sold to people with families, or people who need space to haul furniture, garden supplies, pets, and so forth. They're more comfortable (some come with individual seating, small tables, and overhead TV monitors) and use less fuel than a truck.

So this is the crux of the question: how did the auto industry manage to convince so many families (not all) that such a practical, comfortable, and spacious vehicle with a variety of interior arrangements and features was to be abandoned in favor of a vehicle that consumes more gas and actually has less interior space?
4 wheel drive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Duluth, Minnesota, USA
7,639 posts, read 18,139,154 times
Reputation: 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Ah! This is my point exactly! You're perceiving your choices as being limited to SUV's. Which really aren't that roomy, and certainly not as fuel efficient as the nice roomy vehicles families used to use before heavy trucks were advertised as family vehicles. Remember the mini-van? Those are still being sold to people with families, or people who need space to haul furniture, garden supplies, pets, and so forth. They're more comfortable (some come with individual seating, small tables, and overhead TV monitors) and use less fuel than a truck.

So this is the crux of the question: how did the auto industry manage to convince so many families (not all) that such a practical, comfortable, and spacious vehicle with a variety of interior arrangements and features was to be abandoned in favor of a vehicle that consumes more gas and actually has less interior space?
The mini-vans you are speaking of (I think) are conversion vans. I don't think they got any better gas mileage than a typical SUV.

My theory is that SUVs became popular in part because minivans were seen as a "mom" vehicle. Men did not want to be seen driving them. Fathers now participate more in their children's lives than say, 40 years ago, so a lot of the duty of child-raising fell to the dads, and they wanted something manly yet that would be ideal for team sports and activities, as well as vacations, trips, etc. Also, I think automakers partly sold Americans on the size of the vehicles (bigger was better) as well as their versatility. Most SUVs, at least early on, were 4WD and easily capable of off-roading; I don't think many buyers use/d this functionality, but in their mind it was nice to have. I remember my dad taking my entire family down a snowy, rutted trail in the woods at the end of our road in our Suburban.

Obesity may be a reason, as the larger guys I knew tended to drive full-size SUVs. However, as high of an obesity rate as Americans might have, it's still easy for most people to fit into most vehicles.

I don't know about you, but I tend to see less SUVs today than five years ago. However, such vehicles as the Suburban are still popular among families.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Durham UK
2,028 posts, read 5,433,362 times
Reputation: 1150
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyurban View Post
You actually gave me a flashback with that bolded sentence. I remember in High School, in Georgia, it would take forever to get out of the parking lots. 20 minutes. The parking lot for the school was connected to a small road, that connected to a bigger road, that connected to the major arterial road. One way in one way out. We had school buses however, for Americans you wouldn't be caught dead riding the bus or biking to school.

In my opinion American cars are inferior to the majority of european cars. We have cheap gas here so there isn't a need to be efficient as possible as european (Packing horsepower and MPG; Volkswagon GTI comes to mind). IMHO, it's going to viciously come back to bite us in the ass with how so wasteful we are. To the other poster whose husband works in the oil industry, you need to do this , to yourself . Trust me boo boo, he does not haul that many tools to make a 4x4 truck viable.

However knowing my lovely country, when prices for everything does skyrocket and we can't afford our superficial lifestyle, we'll just blame the libs or repubs. As usual, it's always someone elses fault.
Yes!
My son's High School is the same. I guess it's too expensive to buy land on main roads to build schools on in most places, so you end up with this situation.
I agree re AMerican cars being inferior.They don't make cars that get reasonable consumption, lower emissions and ALSO good horsepower.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Durham UK
2,028 posts, read 5,433,362 times
Reputation: 1150
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Nope. "Spoiled" would imply that we haven't worked our arses off to be able to afford our lifestyle. My DOGS however, are quite spoiled.
My understanding of spoiled has nothing to do with how "hard " someone works. Interestingly allthough I'd heard that America has a very strong work ethic and people work very hard, I don't really see that they work any harder than other nationalities, and many HATE physically challenging work.
As for sports equipment, luggage, etc - Europeans with their love of sports (not to mention often enjoying six weeks of vacation a year) can't really throw stones at Americans.
what does the amount of vacation have to do with what vehicles you drive and how many toys you own? There are far fewer people in Europe who enjoy ownership of boats, jet-skis,quad bikes and excessive numbers of vehicles.


You are misinformed about the oil industry. For starters, Texas oilfields are not all flat. Many parts of Texas, especially in the Panhandle, do get snow. And finally, and more pertinently, my husband's work carries him, in his truck, all over the United States, including very mountainous regions, in the wintertime, that get LOTS of snow. In fact, he spent most of last winter on the very top of a mountain, covered with snow, that was only accessible via four wheel drive, on gravel and dirt roads.

And his "tools" are huge. His toolbox takes up nearly half the bed of his vehicle, and his other equipment takes up the rest of the room.

OK , maybe he does need a large something with 4 wheel drive, but as he doesn't tow anything probably not with a 5 litre engine.But he is the exception in his requirements unlike many who drive these trucks and seem to see them as an extension of their manhood

So, errrrr, yes - my husband needs a HUGE four wheel drive truck in his line of work.

As for workers in Europe - if their jobs require the same sorts of tools and equipment - and driving back and forth up and down a snow covered mountain, on dirt roads, in the dead of winter - then they probably have a truck like my husband's. If not, they need one.




Not sure if you know this - but many school districts do not provide buses for students who live within a certain mile radius - in our area it's a three mile radius. Those students either have to have their parents drop them off, or they drive to school. Many of our towns do not have public transportation because people are so spread out.
But my sons school does have school buses for everyone. In the UK there are virtually no school buses. Many kids walk to school or cycle.There is no student parking available. I also see parents driving their teenage kids to the top of our safe residential road where they catch the school bus. One family live literally 2 houses from the top of the street.
Heard of car pooling for the kids or parents?

As for birth rates - the only European country with a higher birthrate than the US is France. The rest are lower. Not saying that's good or that's bad - it just is what it is.
List of sovereign states and dependent territories by fertility rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
fertility rate and birth rate are not the same thing.However, since you liked to the figures,the fertility rates for France, USA and the UK are 2.96, 2.03 and 1.9 respectively. Hardly any different.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top