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Old 11-17-2016, 08:07 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10037

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P.S. Maxim, I checked on this particular children's clinic posted above - it looks like they've FINALLY built the new one in Rzhevsk a year ago, but before you say anything else - just listen what they have to say HERE( the parents I mean )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmsRO-1O_GM

(that's not Moscow of course - (Chelyabinsk in this case,) and you'll find plenty of examples of failing medical services all over the country, because of the so-called "optimization," and not only.)
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,230,293 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You think so?
Do not judge the general state of things by your own situation. There are plenty of people in Russia that just survive, barely.

( Children's clinic)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5fJXo9N5lg&t=9s

And these people that you see standing there - do they not work? Of course they do, you can see all children are well-dressed and obviously well taken care of. By their parents that is, but clearly not by their government, that keeps on "optimizing" ( that's what they call it,) medical services in the country. Not everyone lives in Moscow Maxim, like you ( or my family for this matter.) This is one of the "less known and less important" cities in Russia; this is Rzhevsk. Just an example. But there are many other "less known and less important cities" in Russian Federation, with "people less important than Moscovites" that live in them. And I DO read the latest petitions directed to the government, petitions regarding the shortage of pain-killers for the oncology patients, children dying because of doctor's indifference - things like that.
erasure, I think, that your video is propaganda. Look at 0:16. It's poster election 2003 years. I don't believe, that it can save 13 years. Most likely it's old video. In 2015 year new clinic was open. Of course, problems exist. Huge problems. But not everything is as bad as it sometimes tries to show.

And I live in Moscow only the last 6 years. I was brought up in the Russian hinterland. For example, my first school (photo from Google MAP).


http://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/...b780c5f0a0.jpg

I think I have an idea of what happens in small towns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
This is the irony - exactly that. Which means he is not taking seriously himself when he is singing "we never lived so awesomely before" to begin with.
He had in mind not only the military component. Many in Russia believe that the Putin era is the best time for the people in the history of Russia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
That's because the "average Russian" is most likely clueless what this "Platon" is all about, if he/she listens to the state-sponsored TV programs and the way these programs describe it.
Be careful. You make the classic mistake when contempt for the ruler you shift to the people who support the ruler. Unfortunately, all Russian "liberal intellectuals" make such mistake. Therefore, the average Russians also do not like these people ("liberal intellectuals").

The average Russians know how to count.
Rate is 3.75 rub/km. For example, the route from Moscow to St. Petersburg is 700 km (435 miles). 700*3,75 = 2611 rub ($ 43.5). That's a lot for 20 tons of cargo and route 700km?
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Old 11-18-2016, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,799,193 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Khodorkovsky has no chance in a post-Putin Russia.
Better to ask yourself why are you trying to interfere in internal politics of Russia? How should the Russians evaluate it?
Well, he thinks he has. He thinks that Putin has maybe 6-8 years left, and Khodorkovsky with his group will come and save the day for stopping Russia to descend to chaos. That is what he thinks.

It's a free country. If Khodorkovsky wants to hold a meeting in Finland, what can we do? It is his right.

But, naturally, Russia is our neighbour, and of course we support all democratic movements.
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Old 11-18-2016, 10:09 AM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
erasure, I think, that your video is propaganda. Look at 0:16. It's poster election 2003 years. I don't believe, that it can save 13 years. Most likely it's old video. In 2015 year new clinic was open.
Yes, it's an older video, but since the NEW clinic has been built only last year, how do you think they were getting by until then? And what's about second video I posted - is it propaganda too? Or do they talk about persistent problems ( well part of them) that plague health care in Russia?


Quote:
Of course, problems exist. Huge problems. But not everything is as bad as it sometimes tries to show.
No, it's the other way around; behind the glittery facade of Putin's Russia, there are growing problems. A lot of them, and they can't go away as long as this government relies on "foreign investments." And it can't be the other way, since this is the needle Russia has been put on in post-Soviet period.

Quote:
And I live in Moscow only the last 6 years. I was brought up in the Russian hinterland. For example, my first school (photo from Google MAP). http://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/...b780c5f0a0.jpg

I think I have an idea of what happens in small towns.
I thought so, so I'd hope that you'd be more sympathetic to the plight of those who don't live in Moscow.


Quote:
He had in mind not only the military component.
I didn't even see any "military component" in his words -(at least the ones you've posted.)

Quote:
Many in Russia believe that the Putin era is the best time for the people in the history of Russia.
Yes, many do. But MANY doesn't mean ALL. You need to see those petitions - how much anger and contempt people have for the government. It's another thing that they don't want to "rock the boat," understanding the EXTERNAL threat.


Quote:
Be careful. You make the classic mistake when contempt for the ruler you shift to the people who support the ruler. Unfortunately, all Russian "liberal intellectuals" make such mistake. Therefore, the average Russians also do not like these people ("liberal intellectuals").

The average Russians know how to count.
Rate is 3.75 rub/km. For example, the route from Moscow to St. Petersburg is 700 km (435 miles). 700*3,75 = 2611 rub ($ 43.5). That's a lot for 20 tons of cargo and route 700km?
He/she clearly DOES NOT, while sitting in front of that TV.
Where did these "700 km" even came from? Who came up with this figure "from Moscow to St. Petersburg,", when Federal Highways are about 50,000 km long and in order to start getting returns on investments ( in a single truck in this case) this truck has to run at LEAST 15-20 THOUSAND km per month!
See Maxim, there is a TV viewer's "calculations" and then there are BUSINESS calculations.
They are broken down here - with all the details, what costs what, with all the expenditures and profits - have a look, but the TV is not talking about all that, now does it? And of course it's not explaining why as the result of it all the price on consumer goods will go up as well.
What the "liberal intellectuals" are saying about all that I have no idea, since I do not listen/view their channels. These people are full of the hot air, while I am talking strictly about business calculations here.
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Old 11-18-2016, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,799,193 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
What the "liberal intellectuals" are saying about all that I have no idea, since I do not listen/view their channels. These people are full of the hot air, while I am talking strictly about business calculations here.
Новости | Yle Uutiset | yle.fi

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Old 11-18-2016, 10:23 AM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Well, he thinks he has. He thinks that Putin has maybe 6-8 years left, and Khodorkovsky with his group will come and save the day for stopping Russia to descend to chaos. That is what he thinks.

It's a free country. If Khodorkovsky wants to hold a meeting in Finland, what can we do? It is his right.

But, naturally, Russia is our neighbour, and of course we support all democratic movements.
People like Khodorkovsky facilitated the chaos in the country at the first place, if not to say the downright destruction.
So he can *think* whatever he likes, Russians won't have any of him, Putin or not.
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Old 11-18-2016, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,799,193 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
People like Khodorkovsky facilitated the chaos in the country at the first place, if not to say the downright destruction.
So he can *think* whatever he likes, Russians won't have any of him, Putin or not.
You don't think people can change? At least he wants to give the impression that he changed from a corrupt olighark to a human rights activist in prison.

There were 75 opposition leaders at that seminar, Khodorkovsky was just one of them.

Ходорковский приехал в Хельсинки для обсуждения дальнейших планов российской оппозиции | Yle Uutiset | yle.fi
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Old 11-18-2016, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Europe
4,692 posts, read 1,164,657 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Weapons - many Ukranian bases are in the Donbass, the rebels seized those weapons. Russia most likely is providing material support as well, but more likely high tech/intel items than weapons as they have plenty of light and heavy weapons from their own territory. I am sure Russia will provide weapon support if really needed.
Mr. Boxus, Donbass is testing ground for Russian military now.
There has never been a large Ukrainian military bases. All this Russian equipment, Russian fuel and Russian military managers. But I understand that this war is profitable and Kiev. So while the current government will not change in Kiev and in Moscow, the war will continue. The real enemies of the Russian and Ukrainian peoples are located in the capitals of these countries!
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Old 11-18-2016, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Europe
4,692 posts, read 1,164,657 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
People like Khodorkovsky facilitated the chaos in the country at the first place, if not to say the downright destruction.
So he can *think* whatever he likes, Russians won't have any of him, Putin or not.
Russian fooled like the Germans in 1939. People will damn Putin as well as soon after Stalin's death!
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Old 11-18-2016, 05:26 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
You don't think people can change? At least he wants to give the impression that he changed from a corrupt olighark to a human rights activist in prison.

There were 75 opposition leaders at that seminar, Khodorkovsky was just one of them.

Ходорковский приехал в Хельсинки для обсуждения дальнейших планов российской оппозиции | Yle Uutiset | yle.fi
People can change of course and that's between Khodorkovsky and his maker.
However for Russian politics he is as good as dead.
From what I see, Russians are far more unanimous in hating the *reformers of the 90ies* than they are hating Stalin. And Khodorkovsky's name will be forever associated with those times.
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