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Old 10-04-2017, 06:24 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,437,689 times
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Tsaritsino Park. Me and my wife/daughters have been here many times. I remember me and the girls were out in the forest the first time they were there and we had a picnic in the forest behind the main museum. July, warm and beautiful. We fell asleep for a couple of hours and it was great.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_NRDGZhdkk
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:36 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,534,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Yes, the resources are a big part of it. How do you subdue a country? You do it by creating instability in some form. There are many tools from bombs to NGOs that support civil disobedience on a large scale like we saw in the Ukraine. Insurrections and rebellions too like in Chechnya.

Russia in one piece has the capability to demand terms in business agreements and treaties that are equitable and fair. Russia divided is just a bunch of weaker nations squabbling among themselves for the best deals.

Stability is the key. With people living in a stable environment great things can be accomplished. Why is America so rich? STABILITY.Horrible destructive war has never touched our shores. Our cities were never leveled and never burned to the ground. We built our railroads once, our highways once.

You can add to this another reason the US wants to destabilize Russia. Its growing relations with China. Unfortunately that horse has left the barn and it seems there is little the west can do to stop it. What we need to fear is the thrashing as the US comes to realize that the gorilla breathing down the neck is called change. The US has screwed up bigtime alienating Russia.
There is more to it than just "China" I think.
In biblical sense ( and I believe it's somewhere there as prediction down the line) Russia can rally China and Iran and India ( and whoever else) behind it, if God had enough with the "West" ( and US in particular.)
And not because Russia is that great of a place, but because it's the ultimate tool to control America and to change things around when needed...
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:43 PM
 
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That's a lovely park - south of Moscow - so peaceful and tranquil.
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,924,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
There is more to it than just "China" I think.
In biblical sense ( and I believe it's somewhere there as prediction down the line) Russia can rally China and Iran and India ( and whoever else) behind it, if God had enough with the "West" ( and US in particular.)
And not because Russia is that great of a place, but because it's the ultimate tool to control America and to change things around when needed...
Are you referring to gog and magog of the end times? It is true that many American evangelicals believe Russia and China to be gog and Magog, though sometimes they think it’s Iran rather than China.
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:49 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,437,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
There is more to it than just "China" I think.
In biblical sense ( and I believe it's somewhere there as prediction down the line) Russia can rally China and Iran and India ( and whoever else) behind it, if God had enough with the "West" ( and US in particular.)
And not because Russia is that great of a place, but because it's the ultimate tool to control America and to change things around when needed...
With the new Silk Road project I think the future path of this world is being set. It is going to bring untold opportunities to billions of people and those billions are going to change us forever. The west may be left outside looking in. Russia and the central asian countries will be unrecognizable. Asia is the next big thing, make no mistake.
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:51 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,437,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiter View Post
That's a lovely park - south of Moscow - so peaceful and tranquil.
One of many. Ismailovo Park after a snowfall is awesome too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnN2BNrSrXY
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:04 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,854,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
With the new Silk Road project I think the future path of this world is being set. It is going to bring untold opportunities to billions of people and those billions are going to change us forever. The west may be left outside looking in. Russia and the central asian countries will be unrecognizable. Asia is the next big thing, make no mistake.
Trying to one-up your laugh with mine? Russia will never prosper as long as Putinism runs the show. No dictatorship outside of the oil kingdoms has achieved first world status, what makes you think yours will? Unrecognizable no doubt as Russians are replaced with Asian migrants.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:12 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,854,455 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Yes, the resources are a big part of it. How do you subdue a country? You do it by creating instability in some form. There are many tools from bombs to NGOs that support civil disobedience on a large scale like we saw in the Ukraine. Insurrections and rebellions too like in Chechnya.

Russia in one piece has the capability to demand terms in business agreements and treaties that are equitable and fair. Russia divided is just a bunch of weaker nations squabbling among themselves for the best deals.

Stability is the key. With people living in a stable environment great things can be accomplished. Why is America so rich? STABILITY.Horrible destructive war has never touched our shores. Our cities were never leveled and never burned to the ground. We built our railroads once, our highways once.

You can add to this another reason the US wants to destabilize Russia. Its growing relations with China. Unfortunately that horse has left the barn and it seems there is little the west can do to stop it. What we need to fear is the thrashing as the US comes to realize that the gorilla breathing down the neck is called change. The US has screwed up bigtime alienating Russia.
The countries which are stable in the world are liberal democracies. Sorry to bring it up again but it takes competitive governments and rule of law to bring stability and prosperity. A fair way to measure stability is the interest rates governments have to pay to issue debt. Russia is around 9%.

The US gains more from Russia being stable and a prosperous trading partner like it has with China. There is no threat to the US with the small amount of trade Russia and China does. It doesn't even make sense to suggest this, as we don't even compete for the same things. Russia is the one who alienated the world and needs to come back before it loses another generation to stagnation.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:22 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,854,455 times
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[quote=erasure;49726589]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post


OK, before you'll have to run to your Ukrainian friends for explanations, let me translate what they chant here (other than "Hang the Russian")
They chant "ONE LANGUAGE, one nation, one motherland - this is Ukraine."
So they are basically sending a signal to the South-East of the country, that Russian is not a legitimate language in Ukraine. Which will be confirmed by the first law issued by the new "Democratic government" in Kiev, when the state status will be stripped away from Russian language. Which, in turn, will set the South-East of the country ( Crimea including) all up in arms.
But you of course ( and your "Ukrainian friends") will keep telling us fairy-tails that it was all "Putin" that created conflict in Ukraine...




Oh I see. So they hold "pro-Russian views prior to 2014, but when Russia *invaded the country* ( i.e. SUPPORTED the PRO-RUSSIAN case,) all of a sudden "millions of Ukrainians" became "anti-Russian." Now how did this happen, what's the logic behind it, explain to me please)))
You really think that people in Zaparozhye care what some group of kids chanted about Russians in a village in western Ukraine? No, sorry but they don't give a toss. These kids did not start the war in Donetsk. I think I gave you too much credit.

I already explained the logic behind how so many millions of Ukrainians living in the south east become against Russia. Russia invaded and killed their friends. I suppose this does not make your ears happy so you keep ignoring it. That doesn't mean they like the idiots in that video from 4 years ago either. It doesn't mean they hate all Russians. Its Putin and his followers they have a problem with.

Its a false dichotomy to suggest that Ukrainians fall into only 2 camps: pro Putin's Russia and these idiots in the video.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:26 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,202 posts, read 107,842,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
And in fact they were right Ruth, (even though during Soviet times I thought that all these old die hard old Soviet gizzards were plain crazy.)



I'm sure by now you can add the Chinese to this list, but that's a slightly different story.



Americans were not there just to "sell stuff" - they were there first of all to assure that Russia is weakened and separated from the rest of republics ( Yavlinsky wrote about it - what a potential disaster from economic point of view this separation was, but he mentioned that our "western colleagues" were INSISTING ON IT ( can't find off top in what paper exactly,) and that's how the Belovezha accords came about, behind the backs of former Soviet citizens and AGAINST THEIR WILLS.
That was step number one. Step number two was the assurance that the following economic reforms go the way, convenient for the US corporations - i.e. that the coveted natural resources of the country would go into the hands of few devoted "Yeltsin's supporters," and from there, American government/corporations could strike deals with these very supporters. That's where "American shareholders" were coming into place. I mean the situation with Khodorkovsky and his Yukos was a perfect example of it all.

I mean too bad that Putin spoiled all the game, right?
I was talking about the RFE in the 90's. And Putin (and/or whomever he works through: Rosneft, or whatever entity) has continued to contract with US and Canadian oil companies. No one needed to break up Russia in order to get oil concessions. Interestingly, the US and Canada are Moscow's preferred partners for oil. Putin booted Royal Dutch Shell and British Petroleum out. Or are they back, now? At one time, they were kicked out. South Korea, OTOH, was taking forest illegally, and Japan was harvesting lumber, as well. Canada had some kind of forestry joint venture going, in Khabarovsky Krai. An American company in Seattle, OTOH, was selling canned goods in Khabarovsk and perhaps Vladivostok, and opened a "modern" self-serve grocery store.
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