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USSR/Stalin from 1939 to 1941:
Signed a deal with Hitler to divide Poland and start the war.
Promised not to fight Germany and supplied them with war materials while Germany took over Europe.
Invaded 6 countries. 1 fought back and successfully fought them off.
Ignored all mobilization and warning signs of Axis powers invasion.
Got absolutely wrecked by a smaller army.
Saved by: winter, sacrifice of millions.
No. The USSR didn't want to attack Poland. German troops crossed the border on Sept 1 1939. The Red Army attacked on Sept 17. Over 2 weeks after Germany attacked.
Why?
Poland was seen by the USSR as a buffer state, In between Germany and the USSR. Russia did not attack immediatly after or with the Germans because the Red Army high command thought the Poles could hold out. It turns out that they didn't and were rapidly falling to pieces by the 17th. The Red Army saw what was happening and sought to gain the old fortifications from WWI in eastern Poland and some breathing room before the Germans did.
Almost the whole remaining Polish army was defending Warsaw and the city came under artillery fire on the 15th. It was all over on that day. The Poles were beaten and everyone knew it. I would have made the same decision in those circumstances.
The Red Army was never "wrecked" by the German army, throughly schooled and well beaten yes. Wrecked, no. If the Red Army had been wrecked the world would be vastly different today.
USSR/Stalin from 1939 to 1941:
Signed a deal with Hitler to divide Poland and start the war.
Promised not to fight Germany and supplied them with war materials while Germany took over Europe.
Invaded 6 countries. 1 fought back and successfully fought them off.
Ignored all mobilization and warning signs of Axis powers invasion.
Got absolutely wrecked by a smaller army.
Saved by: winter, sacrifice of millions.
Of course, attack a country, and blame their fighting back as the reason to attack it first.
Not unlike blaming some western conspiracy when Russia's neighbors with a recent history of being occupied by Moscow forces join defensive security pacts. I'm used to this logic from the motherland. We have a wait a while longer for the USSR mentality to die out. In the meantime if they can keep their nonsense views inside their borders the rest of us would be happy with that.
Nuh, it's not about "blaming them for fighting back."
It's rather about people like you, spreading myths and downright lies about the *groundless and unsubstantiated Russian aggression.*
About this screwy manner of omitting the inconvenient passages of history that don't serve your purpose, and facts that don't support your claims. And a lot of it is just pure ignorance on your part I suppose, plain and simple.
On a brighter side, I have to point that Russians that don't know much of history ( their own including) are usually the most aggressive ilk, being not sure how to respond to accusations thrown in their face.
The ones that are aware of it, usually laugh those accusations off.
They already know that Russia has been appointed by the West as the "guilty party" in all the troubles of the humankind, failures of the West including.
Unrestricted capitalism is on a shaky ground with all its obscenely rich executives ?
Oh that must be Russians with their *commie ideas."
America is falling apart because of internal racial problems?
Must be da Russians again - it's all their fault)))
Signed a deal with Hitler to divide Poland and start the war.
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM
Promised not to fight Germany and supplied them with war materials while Germany took over Europe.
As the others.
"После Мюнхенского сговора чехословацкие активы были сначала доставлены в Лондон и Базель, а в апреле 1939 года руководители Английского банка и Банка международных расчётов официально перевели в Рейхсбанк чехословацкое золото на сумму 24 млн. ф. ст."
"After the Munich agreement, Czechoslovak assets were first delivered to London and Basel, and in April 1939 the leaders of the Bank of England and the Bank for International Settlements officially transferred Czechoslovak gold to the Reichsbank in the amount of £ 24 million."
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM
Invaded 6 countries. 1 fought back and successfully fought them off.
It was a war and preparations for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM
Ignored all mobilization and warning signs of Axis powers invasion.
Not only Europe, but Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. Later wars resulted from the old colonial powers trying to re-assert their control as agreed upon.
Angry about the USSR's shameful past eh? The world, especially Europe, isn't going to forget Stalin helping Hitler with fuel, supplies and assurances of no interference to empower him to conquer Europe. Stalin hoped they would wear each other out so he could later spread communism to the Atlantic. The irony is the monster Stalin helped create eventually ended up almost destroying the USSR...
Angry about the USSR's shameful past eh? The world, especially Europe, isn't going to forget Stalin helping Hitler with fuel, supplies and assurances of no interference to empower him to conquer Europe.
Oh stop already with your nonsense.
This is just an example of how "especially Europe was not going to forget Stalin helping Hitler" ( quoting you.)
But there were many other examples.
In fact a lot of Russians from older generation tend to think that it was not just "Hitler" and "Germany" the USSR was up against back in the day, but a much bigger force.
Quote:
Stalin hoped they would wear each other out
Quote:
so he could later spread communism to the Atlantic.
Nope again, - that was an American position
"If we see that Germany is winning, we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don't want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances."
(Stalin was aware of this approach, that's why he treadled very carefully in Russian-German relations and any rumors of upcoming war.)
As for Stalin "spreading communism to Atlantic" - that's a typical American hysteria of yours yet again.
It was Leon Trotsky with his ideas of the "world revolution" back in 1920ies that was adhering to these ideas, but he was assassinated on Stalin's order ( just in case you are not aware of that.)
(Overall that earlier "bolshevik fraction" in Stalin's government,- that's what was what making him so paranoid, so suspicious of plot/insubordination and triggered the purges over and over again, starting with Sergey Kirov's assassination as far as I remember.)
As for Stalin, he made it official ( and pretty clear back in 1929) that all the "world revolutions" were done and over with - there was no such goal of the USSR any longer.
He was a pragmatic man.
So please stop already, enough of embarrassing yourself.
Truman was a senator at the time. His comment doesn't make it the position of America. Sweden had no choice in the matter, it was supply the iron or be invaded and supply the iron under force.
Well aware of Trotsky's assassination as I've been in his home in Mexico City. You can still see the bullet holes...
Yeah Stalin never wanted to spread communism by force to Europe... oh except he did just that in 1945!
USSR apologists have those pesky facts always in their way!
Truman was a senator at the time. His comment doesn't make it the position of America. Sweden had no choice in the matter, it was supply the iron or be invaded and supply the iron under force.
Oh bullchit. Hitler and the general staff discussed invading Sweden but came down against it because they knew that it would be a disaster. The only real reason to invade aside from some industrial capabilities of limited value was the iron ore mines and there was no way the German army was capable of preventing the Swedes from blowing them up. Sweden could have went fully neutral but them being Swedes they saw a opportunity to make some Krona. He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing.
Quote:
Yeah Stalin never wanted to spread communism by force to Europe... oh except he did just that in 1945!
USSR apologists have those pesky facts always in their way!
And why did the USSR invade Europe in 1944/1945? Did you already forget?
Oh bullchit. Hitler and the general staff discussed invading Sweden but came down against it because they knew that it would be a disaster. The only real reason to invade aside from some industrial capabilities of limited value was the iron ore mines and there was no way the German army was capable of preventing the Swedes from blowing them up. Sweden could have went fully neutral but them being Swedes they saw a opportunity to make some Krona. He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing.
I'm pretty sure we are in agreement here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335
And why did the USSR invade Europe in 1944/1945? Did you already forget?
They had to get to Germany just like the Western democracies did but only the USSR imposed communism on the nations they moved through... and kept it there by force. Not to mention build a wall to keep their slaves from escaping.
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