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Pact signed and Germany took back its territory lost to Poland when the allies imposed the Treaty of Versailles. The Nazis took back the land that was established by treaty at the end of WW1.
This does not even make sense. The Nazis did not take back land established by treaty, lol. Germany was not invaded after WW1 and had land seized from them.
Poland Invaded what was then Soviet Russia, before officially called the USSR. The USSR invaded Poland and took back that land to the post WW1 border. Seems you and many kind of side step the fact Poland invaded years before, and this is the territory the USSR took back.
The Polish-Russian conflicts have been going on for hundreds of years before, but yet you want to pick one point, 1939, and completely ignore 1919 and the prior hundreds of years of conflicts.
This does not even make sense. The Nazis did not take back land established by treaty, lol. Germany was not invaded after WW1 and had land seized from them.
Poland Invaded what was then Soviet Russia, before officially called the USSR. The USSR invaded Poland and took back that land to the post WW1 border. Seems you and many kind of side step the fact Poland invaded years before, and this is the territory the USSR took back.
The Polish-Russian conflicts have been going on for hundreds of years before, but yet you want to pick one point, 1939, and completely ignore 1919 and the prior hundreds of years of conflicts.
Nazi's did indeed recover territory lost by the 1919 Versailles treaty at the end of world war 1. If you were saying something else, it wasn't clear in your post. USSR recovered territory lost in the 1918 treaty at their end of world war 1 too.
The USSR did take back land it lost to the war against Poland but they also took a lot more in Autumn of 1939. This is pretty cut and dry stuff. Simply compare the line of the Brest Litovsk Treaty to the territory taken in a pact with Hitler in 1939. The pact was an agreement which territories they would each conquer and not fight each other over.
I wasn't choosing 1939, I was responding to the lies/myths posted that "other countries" had a non aggression pact with Hitler, as if it was the same thing the USSR did when they took Germany's side during the 2nd world war. Duh, that's why Russia insists the war started in 1941, because they were supporting the Nazi's before that and don't want people to realize their role in starting the war . It took 50 years to rid Europe of fascism and communism and we're glad its over. Sounds like Russia is sad that its over.
Nazi's did indeed recover territory lost by the 1919 Versailles treaty at the end of world war 1. If he was saying something else, it wasn't clear in his post. USSR recovered territory lost in the 1918 treaty at their end of world war 1 too.
The USSR did take back land it lost to the war against Poland but they also took a lot more in Autumn of 1939. This is pretty cut and dry stuff. Simply compare the line of the Brest Litovsk Treaty to the territory taken in a pact with Hitler in 1939. The pact was an agreement which territories they would each conquer and not fight each other over.
I wasn't choosing 1939, I was responding to the lies/myths posted that "other countries" had a non aggression pact with Hitler, as if it was the same thing the USSR did when they took Germany's side during the 2nd world war. Duh, that's why Russia insists the war started in 1941, because they were supporting the Nazi's before that and don't want people to realize their role in starting the war . It took 50 years to rid Europe of fascism and communism and we're glad its over. Sounds like Russia is sad that its over and prefers to ring itself with hostile nations to pretend they are in a war for survival.
Oh, quit inventing lies already ( as you usually do it when it comes to "Ukrainian history" as well.)
You can sell them only to those who don't know history, but to those of us who DO, this is getting ridiculous.
Russia didn't "take Germany's side." ( Don't you think Russians ( or rather the Soviet gov.) didn't know the treatment of German communists/socialists in Hitler's Germany, or do you think they've never heard of "Mein Kampf" and what kind of plans Hitler had for Russia?
No, the reason Russians signed the pact with Hitler was precisely because they saw that allies signed the non-aggression pact with Hitler, while REFUSING to sign a deal with them. Russian government tried to sign a deal not with Hitler, but with the allies FIRST, which was promptly declined. Are you even aware of that?)
So on a basis of everything they saw, Russians made the next logical step, i.e. signed pact with Hitler, took as much land as they could ( keeping in mind the possible war of attrition - the tactic that they employed out of necessity already back in medieval times, having learned their bitter lessons, ) and then all they could do was to "wait and see" from that point on.
Oh, quit inventing lies already ( as you usually do it when it comes to "Ukrainian history" as well.)
You can sell them only to those who don't know history, but to those of us who DO, this is getting ridiculous.
Russia didn't "take Germany's side." ( Don't you think Russians ( or rather the Soviet gov.) didn't know the treatment of German communists/socialists in Hitler's Germany, or do you think they've never heard of "Mein Kampf" and what kind of plans Hitler had for Russia?
No, the reason Russians signed the pact with Hitler was precisely because they saw that allies signed the non-aggression pact with Hitler, while REFUSING to sign a deal with them. Russian government tried to sign a deal not with Hitler, but with the allies FIRST, which was promptly declined. Are you even aware of that?)
So on a basis of everything they saw, Russians made the next logical step, i.e. signed pact with Hitler, took as much land as they could ( keeping in mind the possible war of attrition - the tactic that they employed out of necessity already back in medieval times, having learned their bitter lessons, ) and then all they could do was to "wait and see" from that point on.
You guys just don't give up justifying USSR's murder do you? History isn't according to the USSR textbooks. The pact with Hitler to jointly invade eastern Europe is the foundation to start world war 2! What sort of deal was Stalin looking for with the West anyway? It was the West's fault that the USSR invaded 6 countries in the first six months of the war? It was the West that caused Stalin to call Hitler and congratulate him on France's surrender while sending him the supplies to help? That isn't taking Germany's side?
Oh Stalin foresaw the German attack years in advance and was just getting ready for it! Best way to prepare is invade neutral neighbors afterall, and execute and deport as many inhabitants as it takes. Those ungrateful people to this day aren't thanking Russia enough for this brave action. Ahh I see, but somehow he was still caught by surprise as the Germans annihilated entire armies and 700 miles of the Motherland was destroyed...
It was the West's fault that the USSR invaded 6 countries in the first six months of the war? It was the West that caused Stalin to call Hitler and congratulate him on France's surrender while sending him the supplies to help?
As you can see from the materials above, it was/is not.
Quote:
Oh Stalin foresaw the German attack years in advance and was just getting ready for it!
That is a yes again.
Quote:
Best way to prepare is invade neutral neighbors afterall, and execute and deport as many inhabitants as it takes. Those ungrateful people to this day aren't thanking Russia enough for this brave action.
In his situation ( and under those circumstances) it was rather inevitable, unfortunately so.
What was not serving Russian interests, was serving German interests.
That's how it was back in that day.
One or the other.
Quote:
Ahh I see, but somehow he was still caught by surprise as the Germans annihilated entire armies and 700 miles of the Motherland was destroyed...
Yes he was most likely caught by surprise that things changed THAT fast ( not to mention that total reorganization of the Soviet Army was still underway, and would have taken at least additional 3-4 years.)
You guys just don't give up justifying USSR's murder do you? History isn't according to the USSR textbooks. The pact with Hitler to jointly invade eastern Europe is the foundation to start world war 2! What sort of deal was Stalin looking for with the West anyway? It was the West's fault that the USSR invaded 6 countries in the first six months of the war? It was the West that caused Stalin to call Hitler and congratulate him on France's surrender while sending him the supplies to help? That isn't taking Germany's side?
Oh Stalin foresaw the German attack years in advance and was just getting ready for it! Best way to prepare is invade neutral neighbors afterall, and execute and deport as many inhabitants as it takes. Those ungrateful people to this day aren't thanking Russia enough for this brave action. Ahh I see, but somehow he was still caught by surprise as the Germans annihilated entire armies and 700 miles of the Motherland was destroyed...
You again have written nonsense and turned everything upside down.
To begin with, Stalin did not call Hitler and did not congratulate him. This was done orally by Molotov to Ambassador Schulenburg in Moscow. So what? Who was France to Russia in 1940? It was an absolutely hostile country, which throughout its history directly or indirectly fought with Russia and waged intrigues in the commonwealth with England.
And what is this the Pact of JOINT INVASION? Throw off a link to the text, please...just for fun...
And the main reason of the beginning of WW2 was not the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact,but the "Munich agreement" between England,France,Germany and Italy on the division of Czechoslovakia, which was tacit approval from England and France on the division and conquest of Europe by Hitler. And "the main Jackal of Europe" -Poland also participated in this, in the future counting on the help of Germany in the attack on the USSR. They all naively thought that they will migth grab something by Hitler's hands. But Hitler was not a fool and saw these hypocritical liars through and understood that the same "agreement" can later happen against Germany and just enchanting "threw" them, grabbing both France and Poland. England from conquest was saved only by the fact that it is an island.
And if such a conquest did not happen, that in the war against the USSR with Germany together would have fought and France and England and Poland and, I think, the United States would not stand aside. What is confirmed by the fact that during the WW2 on the side of Germany fought many times more French than on the side of the Resistance. This is also confirmed by the fact that the Allies pulled to the last with the opening of the "Second front". And opened it not in 1941 as Stalin asked, but only in 1944, when finally convinced that they may not have time to "win" and they may lose a piece of his pie in Europe.
Yes, at some point the USSR and Germany were allies, such was the need for that time and what? The USA and Japan were also allies during the Civil war in Russia and got along well in the Far East,jointly creating repressions and executions of Russians. But then..suddenly.. Pearl Harbor happened and they became enemies... Just like the USSR and Germany.
USSR/Stalin from 1939 to 1941:
Signed a deal with Hitler to divide Poland and start the war.
Promised not to fight Germany and supplied them with war materials while Germany took over Europe.
Invaded 6 countries. 1 fought back and successfully fought them off.
Ignored all mobilization and warning signs of Axis powers invasion.
Got absolutely wrecked by a smaller army.
Saved by: winter, sacrifice of millions.
USSR/Stalin from 1939 to 1941:
Signed a deal with Hitler to divide Poland and start the war.
Promised not to fight Germany and supplied them with war materials while Germany took over Europe.
Invaded 6 countries. 1 fought back and successfully fought them off.
Ignored all mobilization and warning signs of Axis powers invasion.
Got absolutely wrecked by a smaller army.
Saved by: winter, sacrifice of millions.
You are growing desperate, DKM?
Your choose and pick the "facts" that serve your agenda, and that's how "facts" turn into propaganda - plain and simple.
When it comes even to that 1 particular country that "successfully fought back" Soviet attack, even with this particular "small country" Russians TRIED TO NEGOTIATE prior to attack.
They pointed at the vulnerability of their second in importance city, because of the close proximity to this named above "small country." Russians could foresee the danger of the possible siege and they turned out to be right about it, as usual when it comes to the military affairs.
When that "small country" responded "we don't give a sh*t about your concerns," and "successfully fought the Russians off," this particular "small country" became an accessory to the biggest crimes against humanity - namely the siege of Leningrad, with over 1 million deaths of people ( very painful deaths at that.)
No wonder that when Russians ( who prevailed at the end as usual) turned around, they took much bigger swaths of that "small country" than they originally asked for.
Let this serve as a lesson to everyone.
Russians don't take security of their state lightly.
Of course, attack a country, and blame their fighting back as the reason to attack it first. Not unlike blaming some western conspiracy when Russia's neighbors with a recent history of being occupied by Moscow forces join defensive security pacts. I'm used to this logic from the motherland. We have a wait a while longer for the USSR mentality to die out. In the meantime if they can keep their nonsense views inside their borders the rest of us would be happy with that.
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