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How do you know the "Australian" isn't Russian? Some crony who set up a cushy pad in Oz?
Ruth, he IS Russian ( Scrat already mentioned his name somewhere in this thread.)
That's why I used * * sarcastically referring to him as "Australian."
Denis Shtengelov has billion dollars ( according to Bloomberg.)
So yes, a crony with a cushy pad in Oz.
( Yet another Russian crony having a cushy pad somewhere in the West.
I won't be too surprised if he, too, will ask for "political asylum" somewhere in London after all. )
Practically all scum in Russia has some ties to the West - financial ties first of all ( as I've already said this whole corrupt Putins' system is joined at the hip with the West.)
And obviously this case is no exclusion.
I think that in this case everything is more complicated. Disregard for their own security is a typical problem for Russians.
For example, I live on 16th floor of a multi-storey building. Norms indicate that there should be 2 emergency exits. One is an typical staircase. Second is an emergency staircase that passes through balconies of apartments. 90% of residents cut this ladder and closed hats.
Second example, my office at work has a grille on the windows. It's forbidden, but no one completes, because it's protection against hacking.
Sad reason for what happened in Kemerovo is обычное распиздяйство, low responsibility of people. People live with the Soviet mentality: authorities should do everything for them. People don't want to do anything.
And this is not a reproach, I myself am the same.
You mean an overload of the electric circuit. You're right, this is a probable cause of the heat and fire.
I don't like the conception of a shopping mall. You gather in one building: different shops, cafes, restaurants, cinemas, zoo, gyms. There are hundreds and thousands of very different people in one place (This is a real Vavilon tower!) It's like a market but a market is more natural and safer although less comfortable.
The target of a shopping mall is to make people to buy more and more. This is a marketing action.
I'm not against big office centers. There is the Palace of culture and science in Warsaw. It has many institutions but not for children. And this palace was built by Soviet builders (as a present for the capital after the WWII) to advance culture and science. They didn't think to make quick money only.
PS. The shopping mall in Kemerovo had the baby institutions on the third floor. This is a law violation because such rooms have to be not higher than on the first floor.
malls also have the advantage of being able to shop in a large selection of stores without being exposed to the elements outside, I personally would hate to walk around an outdoor market on a nasty cold, wet and rainy day. Malls have their negatives, but protecting shoppers from the weather is something that most people can appreciate particularly Russians/Siberian’s with their harsh winters.
I think that in this case everything is more complicated. Disregard for their own security is a typical problem for Russians.
For example, I live on 16th floor of a multi-storey building. Norms indicate that there should be 2 emergency exits. One is an typical staircase. Second is an emergency staircase that passes through balconies of apartments. 90% of residents cut this ladder and closed hats.
Second example, my office at work has a grille on the windows. It's forbidden, but no one completes, because it's protection against hacking.
Sad reason for what happened in Kemerovo is обычное распиздяйство, low responsibility of people. People live with the Soviet mentality: authorities should do everything for them. People don't want to do anything.
And this is not a reproach, I myself am the same.
Where I work (when not in the field) we have a person directly responsible for workplace safety. It's an ongoing battle and the work environment is a hazardous one. Unfortunately our shop floor is a safety hazard. Cracked concrete worn and the lighting is not quite up to par. Sky lights are up high built into the roof and haven't been cleaned in decades. The ladies in the office don't come in here because of the floor, they con't see the cracks in the dim light and the shoes they wear make turning an ankle highly likely not to mention all the tripping hazards from tools cables and all that.
Management is not going to invest in improving anything. It's a huge old building and would cost millions. The laws and code requirements make things ridiculously expensive. If they wanted or were forced to upgrade the lighting and put in a new shop floor they would have to deal with outside contractors who would rape them for doing it. When you force someone to do something it's always far more expensive. All in all it's not really that unsafe if you keep your eyes open and be quite careful at times you won't get hurt and with all things considered we make do and inspecters that come and go seem to have reached a compromise.
I think that what Russians do is just not worry about it that much. The cost of conforming to all the regs is extraordinary or just outright impractical to conform to. Compromises are reached. It happens everywhere if you look closely.
As for Shtengolov if he is in any way culpable in this he's proven his inability to properly manage his assets and he should be relieved of them and they should be put into more capable hands.
Since he's in the west you can be certain his money will ensure his freedom if he is guilty.
Terrible story in Kemerovo, especially because many children among victims. Such buildings with almost no windows look bad. There has been more than one similar accidents in nightclubs which are also quite claustrophobic places without windows and with narrow exits. I am afraid there were lot of dangerous building materials used in the interior, made out of something what excude toxic substances when afire. Looks like most of victims died of asphyxiation.
Ruth, he IS Russian ( Scrat already mentioned his name somewhere in this thread.)
That's why I used * * sarcastically referring to him as "Australian."
Denis Shtengelov has billion dollars ( according to Bloomberg.)
So yes, a crony with a cushy pad in Oz.
( Yet another Russian crony having a cushy pad somewhere in the West.
I won't be too surprised if he, too, will ask for "political asylum" somewhere in London after all. )
malls also have the advantage of being able to shop in a large selection of stores without being exposed to the elements outside, I personally would hate to walk around an outdoor market on a nasty cold, wet and rainy day. Malls have their negatives, but protecting shoppers from the weather is something that most people can appreciate particularly Russians/Siberian’s with their harsh winters.
Canada really goes all out, to provide an inviting environment in their shopping malls, for those long, snowy or rainy winters. Their grand architecture with soaring ceilings with lots of glass, to let in natural light, create a wonderful atmosphere for getting out of the house during those shortened northern days. They also seem to organize their malls by economic class; they have the most expensive stores all in one mall, then mid-range stores in another mall, then the lower-tier store in a third mall. The low-tier malls look like US malls; kind of plain, shabby, ordinary boxy architecture, one floor usually.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 03-28-2018 at 06:38 PM..
I think that in this case everything is more complicated. Disregard for their own security is a typical problem for Russians.
For example, I live on 16th floor of a multi-storey building. Norms indicate that there should be 2 emergency exits. One is an typical staircase. Second is an emergency staircase that passes through balconies of apartments. 90% of residents cut this ladder and closed hats.
Second example, my office at work has a grille on the windows. It's forbidden, but no one completes, because it's protection against hacking.
Sad reason for what happened in Kemerovo is обычное распиздяйство, low responsibility of people. People live with the Soviet mentality: authorities should do everything for them. People don't want to do anything.
And this is not a reproach, I myself am the same.
I think you are confusing couple of things here Maxim.
Authorities are not supposed to do "everything," but it's their JOB to design, implement and control the compliance with safety measures.
If the tenants of your building want to cut the ladder going through their balconies - it's their own personal choice. If one of them dies during fire and during the investigation it's going to be pointed out, that the lack of such ladder led to family's death - oh well.
But when people are going to public places, such as this shopping mall, they should expect reasonable safety measures, such as escape routs during fire, and particularly when the main doors are locked during movie time.
Business ( any business) is geared primarily towards making profits, not to watch out for public safety ( because investing in such measures cuts business profits.) But that's where the civilized society steps in, and pays the government officials that they'd design those safety measures and observe their compliance.
When the government officials put a business that hosts thousands of people (and makes profits much higher than what is officially claimed) on a "compliance monitory vacation" - i.e. let it get away with no safety check ups for years, it's called CORRUPTION with a big "C," not "обычное распиздяйство."
When the business is not keeping up with safety measures, it saves money; these savings are shared with officials. As this case shows us - at the expense of ordinary people's lives.
A guy who lost in this fire his sister, three children and his wife, listening to her last pleas to save them, while they were locked in that auditorium, understands it very well.
And that's why his speech becomes VERY political during the protest.
I've heard that during the last presidential election the city of Kemerovo was overwhelmingly voting for Putin.
I don't think it's going to be a case any longer.
Last edited by erasure; 03-29-2018 at 12:42 AM..
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