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Old 01-22-2021, 11:14 AM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037

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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I’m not saying to start a revolution and throw the baby out with the bath water. I’m just saying people shouldn’t be politically apathetic. Despite what the west says elections still exist in Russia and sometimes oppositionary candidates do win (usually at the local level), so all I’m saying is maybe start voting something other than United Russia party, it’s not good when one party holds a monopoly on power for many decades, it leads to tunnel vision and stagnation. Russia needs fresh ideas and new blood.

And what OTHER parties are out there, Grega?

Do you understand that "party" is not some empty shell - it's the money, resources, political/economic ideas, and people in that party that have solid record.

( And access to finances - I can't stress it enough, because that's how multi-party system works in the West.)
With other words, it takes time to develop the REAL multi-party system with REAL parties.

But in Russia the political field has been CLEANSED back in the nineties, with the arrival of the oligarchy.

So there are no parties to speak of and to vote for, since then.

Last edited by erasure; 01-22-2021 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 01-22-2021, 11:53 AM
 
168 posts, read 128,719 times
Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
No comments about this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipAnwilMncI

All a western plot no doubt to help Putin and his circle steal Russia's money. But then why did it set a youtube record for Russian views? A CIA plot?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwLb43aXxHU
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Old 01-22-2021, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,922,938 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
And what OTHER parties are out there, Grega?

Do you understand that "party" is not some empty shell - it's the money, resources, political/economic ideas, and people in that party that have solid record.

( And access to finances - I can't stress it enough, because that's how multi-party system works in the West.)
With other words, it takes time to develop the REAL multi-party system with REAL parties.

But in Russia the political field has been CLEANSED back in the nineties, with the arrival of the oligarchy.

So there are no parties to speak of and to vote for, since then.
Well it all starts from somewhere, it takes a lot of conviction and commitment to see these things through, and yes a very long road that can take multiple generations. But it starts from somewhere, after all the west used to be run by autocrats too. And yes I get that most of the other parties are just for show bla bla bla, but I have my suspicion that if one of these parties gained a sizable amount of the duma they would stop folding to the United Russia party, or at the least would bring other ideas to the floor to debate. I mean even in the US the argument can be made that the republicans and democrats are two faces of the same coin (corporate party) but they clearly have their own ideas and keep each other in check from going to extreme.
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Old 01-22-2021, 01:30 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,493,078 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
And this works, because...?
Because Russians are stupid, or because Russians have actual experience what the West is after, when they bring their guard down?

And if the latter is true, then whose fault is it, that this reminder works?


("Fool me once" you know...)


When it comes to "Venezuela"...


Wait, I actually watched your video with Trump.
Donald likes to be a bit dramatic - after all he used to be on the "sliver screen," and I think that's the part to him that was not understood by many, particularly his adversaries.

And he can be very funny too, which was missed by many because of their blind hatred towards him.
I've mentioned before, that I LOATH some republicans (those around Trump including,) but not him personally.

And I DO understand their weariness about certain changes forced by the "progressives" among the democrats.

When it comes to the whole issue of the healthcare, I think that the reasonable part of republicans would agree that things can't go the way they go, and I think they would figure out a compromise with someone like Sanders.

But when you have the "progressives" pushing from another side for universal health care AND unlimited immigration simultaneously, that's when things become unrealistic if you ask me.

Overall you can't NOT to take the concerns of the "right wingers" in consideration, and write these people off as "inconvenient" and their ideas as "outdated," because they represent big chunk of America's very foundation.

You can't "cancel out" this foundation and to hijack the country from them, with the help of corporations, ( that are the very essence of capitalism,) and to climb on top of the world as the ultimate "democratic" ( left-wing) country.

This is wicked, and as I've said, if this is not the coming of antichrist, then I don't know what IS.
America is not Russia; when it comes to Russia, then I am your normal generic "left," because in Russia things are pretty straightforward and simple, when it comes to the "left" ideas.
No "women emancipation" attached to it, no 35 genders, no racial issues.



But I digress, since it's a thread about Russia...
That’s ridiculous. Countries are not supposed to be static. They need to evolve over time. You claim that the US needs to be a right wing country is simply outdated. Things have dramatically changed since the days of the founding fathers. The population has increased manifold times, while the demographics have also changed. The US needs to look at Canada and Western Europe and incorporate some of those reforms.
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Old 01-22-2021, 01:41 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,298,594 times
Reputation: 1692
By the way, an interesting article about corruption (It has nothing to do with Russia in the content, it's all about the new administration, the nature of that blog is economics, the author has a PhD in economics, she is very left leaning and she knows what she is talking about).

Basically a quick tour of the endemic corruption in America.....it seems that a common joke in DC is that the bribe gearing ratio is 1:1000, one million of donation can buy you 1 billion of favors (contracts, tax scheme, etc..)

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021...president.html

Unbelievable how gullible people like DKM (is he/she actually a real person??) think that the west, and specifically the US, has something to teach to Russia or some high moral ground to stand....laughable.

My understanding (maybe wrong) is that Putin, for better or worse and probably with "Russian methods" is trying to build a framework (political, financial and constitutional) where the 1990s will never be allowed to happen again, doesn't matter who gets elected (right, left, whatever), they will be surrounded by a Russian deep state that will guarantee the continuation of the long term strategic interest of Russia no matter what.

Exactly what happen in the US....I never been a fan of Trump but the deep state tried to destroy him since day one but The Donald was simply too narcissistic and stupid to react properly, he was a horrible communicator and he made terrible choices regarding key figures in the administration, probably thinking to placate the Deep State attempt to eliminate him.


Look at the first details emerging from the confirmation hearings of Biden officials....US embassy moving back to Tel Aviv?? No. Probably increased pressure in the Caucasus with renew focus on Georgia. Blinken said that the Trump admin "was right" in its denunciation and pressure on China but he disagrees with the methodology.


Nothing changes.
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Old 01-22-2021, 01:43 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,298,594 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
That’s ridiculous. Countries are not supposed to be static. They need to evolve over time. You claim that the US needs to be a right wing country is simply outdated. Things have dramatically changed since the days of the founding fathers. The population has increased manifold times, while the demographics have also changed. The US needs to look at Canada and Western Europe and incorporate some of those reforms.

Changes to a country cannot be imposed from outside. It's called sovereignty for a reason.
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Old 01-22-2021, 01:53 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
Well it all starts from somewhere, it takes a lot of conviction and commitment to see these things through, and yes a very long road that can take multiple generations. But it starts from somewhere, after all the west used to be run by autocrats too. And yes I get that most of the other parties are just for show bla bla bla, but I have my suspicion that if one of these parties gained a sizable amount of the duma they would stop folding to the United Russia party, or at the least would bring other ideas to the floor to debate. I mean even in the US the argument can be made that the republicans and democrats are two faces of the same coin (corporate party) but they clearly have their own ideas and keep each other in check from going to extreme.

I explained to you that under the current circumstances, this "somewhere" would have to be a military upheaval (because otherwise no one can have access to the state resources; no one other than ruling party.)
But with the enemy still at the gate, ask Russians ( even the ones critical of Putin) how much they want to risk it.
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Old 01-22-2021, 01:57 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,493,078 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
By the way, an interesting article about corruption (It has nothing to do with Russia in the content, it's all about the new administration, the nature of that blog is economics, the author has a PhD in economics, she is very left leaning and she knows what she is talking about).

Basically a quick tour of the endemic corruption in America.....it seems that a common joke in DC is that the bribe gearing ratio is 1:1000, one million of donation can buy you 1 billion of favors (contracts, tax scheme, etc..)

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021...president.html

Unbelievable how gullible people like DKM (is he/she actually a real person??) think that the west, and specifically the US, has something to teach to Russia or some high moral ground to stand....laughable.

My understanding (maybe wrong) is that Putin, for better or worse and probably with "Russian methods" is trying to build a framework (political, financial and constitutional) where the 1990s will never be allowed to happen again, doesn't matter who gets elected (right, left, whatever), they will be surrounded by a Russian deep state that will guarantee the continuation of the long term strategic interest of Russia no matter what.

Exactly what happen in the US....I never been a fan of Trump but the deep state tried to destroy him since day one but The Donald was simply too narcissistic and stupid to react properly, he was a horrible communicator and he made terrible choices regarding key figures in the administration, probably thinking to placate the Deep State attempt to eliminate him.


Look at the first details emerging from the confirmation hearings of Biden officials....US embassy moving back to Tel Aviv?? No. Probably increased pressure in the Caucasus with renew focus on Georgia. Blinken said that the Trump admin "was right" in its denunciation and pressure on China but he disagrees with the methodology.


Nothing changes.
While what you say is true, the biggest problem with DC comes in the form of lobbying. There are plenty of foreign nationals who go there and ask the US to do their bidding. In fact, most of those who openly opposed the Soviet Union and Russia originally came from Eastern Europe.
Let’s look at some of the big names:
Zbigniew Brzezinski (probably misspelled it cause I didn’t check): Polish
Madeleine Albright : Czech
George Soros: Hungarian

The US is in a difficult position where as soon as it tries to approach a country, it is met with opposition by some groups.
Cuba: The Cuban exiles in Florida get mad
Iran: Israel gets annoyed
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Old 01-22-2021, 02:01 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
That’s ridiculous. Countries are not supposed to be static. They need to evolve over time. You claim that the US needs to be a right wing country is simply outdated. Things have dramatically changed since the days of the founding fathers. The population has increased manifold times, while the demographics have also changed. The US needs to look at Canada and Western Europe and incorporate some of those reforms.

I never claimed that.

Democracies can't stay static.
US STARTED as the right wing country - it simply can't deny its foundation.
If it developed some "left" ideas with time - that's just fine, the two-party system is what keeps the democratic process going.

What the left CAN'T do though, is to hijack the country using the corporations as their weapon of choice, and to sponsor the ultra-right forces in Russia.

Which they did.

That's why I keep on pointing at American "left" as a very problematic and questionable force out there, not to mention certain parts of their today's agenda.
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Old 01-22-2021, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,228,964 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I’m not saying to start a revolution and throw the baby out with the bath water. I’m just saying people shouldn’t be politically apathetic. Despite what the west says elections still exist in Russia and sometimes oppositionary candidates do win (usually at the local level), so all I’m saying is maybe start voting something other than United Russia party, it’s not good when one party holds a monopoly on power for many decades, it leads to tunnel vision and stagnation. Russia needs fresh ideas and new blood.
Yes, fresh ideas are needed, and there must be an environment for this to appear. But what happens tomorrow is a bad way - it can be a tragedy for many young people. Many of them can go to jail and ruin their lives. Who is to blame that young people don't understand why majority of the population supports Putin? Everyone is to blame, but above all those who tell these teenagers that they are the smartest and the best.
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