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Once again assuming! It's hilarious you find in the world "Diversity" racism!
When I say Muslim immigration should be controlled for the sake of diversity. I mean that more immigration from other parts of the world should be promoted to balance demographics out.
We can't let the entire middle East and north Africa empty its entire population here, while pretty much closing doors to just about everyone else!
We need cultural enrichment from all over the world, NOT A TAKE OVER BY THE MIDDLE EAST!
Mine was a misunderstanding. Sorry if i understood one thing instead of another while reading.
As for what you suggest, it isn't as easy but i think we are getting the cultural enrichment you talk about (maybe not Germany, i guess, but Italy). I can speak only for Italy but the most common immigrant groups are all different from each other (except for Romanians and Moldovans):
Mine was a misunderstanding. Sorry if i understood one thing instead of another while reading.
As for what you suggest, it isn't as easy but i think we are getting the cultural enrichment you talk about (maybe not Germany, i guess, but Italy). I can speak only for Italy but the most common immigrant groups are all different from each other (except for Romanians and Moldovans):
Albanian, Bangladesh, Some Indians, Morocco all muslims.
Yeah but completely different cultures between each other and i take you have never been close to an Albanian. They are just like the average German in terms of religiousness, most of them are just nominally Muslim, not to talk that there is a sizable Christian minority in the country (some sources put it even as high as the Islamic community).
Honestly, given the answers you are giving me, i don't know if you are just stupid, an Islamophobe or just someone who's trying to make fun of City Data users. Anyway, i'm leaning on Islamophobe because someone could point out that Peruvians, Italians, Pinoys, ecc. are all the same because they have the same religion when that isn't true and your English is far too good for you to be considered stupid.
My theory doesn't call to let everyone in. I myself said several times that illegal immigrants shouldn't be welcomed (although the issue is far more complicated than that, we must stop human trafficking before) but that legal ones and refugees should (i think they should be required to learn and to show to have learned enough of the local language and culture after one year in their new country).
All nice and we all agree.
So, let's me sum up, we should accept:
1) Refugees. The TRUE ones, that means women and children and elderly people actually fleeing from war.
First problem though, most Syrians who flee from Turkey are not refugees actually since they don't escape from war any more.
What do we do?
I'd say that helping countries like Liban (no billions for them though, thanks EU) and Jordan and setting camp THERE where to select people who deserves to come (orphans or disables for example, minorities such as Kurds, Yazidis or Christians).
2) Political prisoners
For example, had that Syrian blogger recently executed by those subhumans asked for asylum, I'd have taken her, no matter her religion.
The same applies for many Turkish journalists who are Muslim and also courageous men.
3) Highly qualified people
For example, the US take every year thousands of highly qualified Indian engineers who help the US.
So should we.
Controversial point is that by taking thousands of African highly qualified people we are also impoverishing that continent, one of the many ways sadly.
4) Needed people
Example, Italy is likely to have a shortage of doctors in the next future: let's take in the best that we can take, like does Australia.
5) Other categories
People with marriages, adoptions, people with VISAS etc.
Wouldn't this be the most reasonable model?
Beware, in the meanwhile the developed world should solve the source of the problems as well.
So far though nothing has been done because it's much more convenient.
Quote:
I can't explain the bolded part easily. There are several people fleeing from wars, alongside them there are also illegal immigrants of course. The people who are fleeing to European is the middle-upper classes of these countries, these are people who could afford to gather enough to make the trip through illegal organizations.
Exactly.
A British study found that a person from Ghana (i.e. one of the wealthiest and most developed West African nations) to reach Europe had to pay what it would mean to an average Europe 100,000 €, on the spot.
Now, turn this into what it means for an African.
Quote:
The working and low classes are mostly in neighbouring countries such as Lebanon and Jordan where they live in ****ty conditions and barely even have enough food, electicity or running water. Lebanon and Jordan simply don't receive and don't have enough resources to host this people (giving a country of 4 million the task of hosting 1,1 million of refugees is madness) so the wealthiest ones of them have no choice but to try to find their luck elsewhere
Absolutely right.
Quote:
Most of those people don't want our benefits, they may take advantage of them while they are here but they are trying to work their asses to guarantee their sons and themselves a better future. They are no different to the Italian immigrants who went to the USA, to Germany, ecc. until a few decades ago.
There are several skilled ones as well as several refugees coming, more than you actually think. The vast bulk is made up by illegal immigrants though and we must be able to tell one from each other and that isn't an easy process, which is why refugee centers and camps in Europe are overcrowded.
Look here: https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-eu...oals-in-europe
It says that within 2020 Germany will need over 400,000 new people in order to balance its need of manpower.
So, why do you think that they don't open their legal processes for all the Europeans that don't have a work?
I mean, the large majority of that number may be filled just by Italians (I mean, there's no shortage of unemployed manpower, especially in Southern Europe).
Yet, why do you think that our ruling elite prefers to import foreign people?
Because it's called salarial dumping and it will inevitably shrink wages and social rights as it is already happening because of globalisation.
It's called 'competition of the work' and it calls to increase 'profit' by reducing the cost of production, i.e. salaries in most cases.
You are already seeing what it means here in Italy or in Greece.
Quote:
If the West stopped excessive intervention in those countries, immigration would come to a halt, without the Syrian War or the Lybian Civil one (the rise of immigrants can be easily explained by these two events) before, ecc. the issue would be a secondary one.
Who made those interventions WANT the influx NOT to stop, it's deliberate design aimed at balkanising Europe and destroying the fruit of over one century of social struggles.
Quote:
Are we leaving our borders open though? That's only between countries who adhere to the Schengen treaty. The border between Greece and Turkey isn't open but the number of immigrants is so high that a few are going to pass through anyway. The country on the Southern borders such as Greece, Spain and Italy can't have all the burden of preventing illegal immigration all on themselves, there's only so much they can do.
"a few"?
Over 400,000 people passed from Greece alone.
Quote:
We won't put a problem to this with further isolation but we must find a common solution. The problem is that Central and Eastern European countries oppose any solution because they think only of themselves and aren't affected by the migratory wave
It's not that simple.
Poland has been affected since it has received many thousands (I read up to 200,000) Ukrainian refugees (who are not newsworthy apparently) for example.
Eastern countries have always called for the control at the external part whereas Germany has irresponsibly favoured a massive entries of illegals by promoting the 'Germany can receive 1,000,000 people by year'.
Even Sweden, the racial nirvana leftists drool over, has closed its borders.
SWEDEN, not Nazi Hungary that leftists hated with such passion this summer.
Idea by "Xander.XVII" is exactly what I want to say. Just by doing all things (1-5) right , most economic migrants already are eliminated, reducing the number of migrants/refugees entering non-Balkans Europe by a lot too. A recent study put the number of economic migrants at 70%, especially when Syrian "refugees" who have lived for months/years in Turkey/Egypt/etc. are added. The crisis will easily become less dangerous and dificult. With these moves, it is very likely that issues with immigrants (racism, terrorism, illegal actions by immigrants) will decrease too in scope, when single men and clear economic migrants will stop manipulating the European systems of social and economic services (which are largely based on trust of the person who is using them).
Just when the fun started it was over and deleted.
Well, in any case ON TOPIC, I've noticed a stark change in attitudes here in my small corner of the world. When the refugee crisis started all the refugees were victims of war and welcomed as an act of humanity, but now they are all criminals and possible terrorists. We have had over 10 strikes against refugee centres last year, sometimes with molotov cocktails, Sweden had over 50(!) last year.
So the attitudes in reality are definitely not any "all welcome in Europe, be my guest".
What I find worrying that racism is increasing due to this. Hang the terrorists, but the attitude up here is not very encouraging.
Just when the fun started it was over and deleted.
Well, in any case ON TOPIC, I've noticed a stark change in attitudes here in my small corner of the world. When the refugee crisis started all the refugees were victims of war and welcomed as an act of humanity, but now they are all criminals and possible terrorists. We have had over 10 strikes against refugee centres last year, sometimes with molotov cocktails, Sweden had over 50(!) last year.
So the attitudes in reality are definitely not any "all welcome in Europe, be my guest".
What I find worrying that racism is increasing due to this. Hang the terrorists, but the attitude up here is not very encouraging.
What I'd want to know if I'd written this original post was if by "blacks" they meant "anything darker than a paper bag, of any ethnicity, that people THINK is "black" meaning even Native Americans, latinos, Native Hawaiian Islanders, dark-skinned Indians, Southeast Asians and Sri Lankans...." and to distinguish between blacks who are NOT Muslim and black Muslims. I was told by someone in Finland that the differentiation goes by if you have a "North American" accent and are visibly NOT Muslim (and appear "suited and booted" at all times) then maybe at the very least you won't be treated like a "refugee draining our welfare system" or a "terrorist."
I was enquiring about coming (somewhere) to get my PhD in Mathematical Computational Physics and how I would be received by the general public there - as you know it is possible to live MOSTLY in your Lab but not entirely; I can't imagine living in someone's country for the entire 8-10 year duration of the PhD program and NEVER have any encounters with the "locals." That's why I'm perhaps "overthinking" it a little - I would have to live in that country with their "locals" for 8-10 years and I wouldn't want to drop out of a PhD program in frustration at how people are treating me (i.e. "like a prostitute whenever I go outside" sort of thing. I wouldn't want to have wasted airfare and getting my hopes up of getting the hell AWAY from that right here in AmeriKKKa and KKKanada, after all.) when, after all, I'm trying to get my PhD in Physics to STOP that kind of goddamned treatment.
Thing is, in places like France, being treated "like an American" (since I'm actually CANADIAN) wouldn't be much of an IMPROVEMENT over being treated like an "African" refugee or Muslim terrorist!! The French know what "AUTOCHTONE" means but I'd have to TELL it to everyone who met me, because, I'm told, people can only TELL that when and if they WANT to.
Hell, maybe it will be possible to spend the next 8-10 years sequestered entirely IN the lab and never see or talk to anyone, just do my research...but then what. Gotta come out of the lab sometime .. and who knows what will happen to society in the next 8-10 years vis-a-vis people's attitudes toward dark-skinned Indians who "look black" who have college degrees in the sciences or Math.
Just when the fun started it was over and deleted.
Well, in any case ON TOPIC, I've noticed a stark change in attitudes here in my small corner of the world. When the refugee crisis started all the refugees were victims of war and welcomed as an act of humanity, but now they are all criminals and possible terrorists. We have had over 10 strikes against refugee centres last year, sometimes with molotov cocktails, Sweden had over 50(!) last year.
So the attitudes in reality are definitely not any "all welcome in Europe, be my guest".
What I find worrying that racism is increasing due to this. Hang the terrorists, but the attitude up here is not very encouraging.
Racism and anger are increasing and they will increase if 'our' politicians don't solve this situation: this exasperating political correctness, this willing absence of actual debate about immigrations, this determined refusal to admit that something is wrong in such an uncontrolled immigration and the continuous label of 'fascist/xenophobe/nazi/racist/etc' to whoever even dares to raise a doubt about immigration are making people increasingly anger.
While there are surely many people who just hate any different people, especially with different skin colours and religions/cultures, most people 'against immigration' (in reality anybody with a functioning brain should be against an uncontrolled immigration of millions) don't want to ban immigration, seal borders with machine guns and turrets and deport all foreigners.
Most people 'against immigration' have no problem whatsoever with a compatible immigration of true refugees and of people that the country actually need.
Take Australia, besides its advantageous position, is doing what any sensible country is doing: they take in only the people they need or that may be an actual contribution to their country and?
Do we see any extreme right-wing party gassing foreigners?
No, yet just 40 years ago there was the 'White Australia policy', so it's not like Australians were always ultra-Liberal leftists.
Australian leadership has simply done what any sensible leadership should do, i.e. their citizens' interest.
I think Northern-Europe is more often spitted by Southern-Europe than other way around. Also South and North pick and mock each others "neighbours" as well. Racism inside Europe toward other Europeans exist as well as agaisnt own country men.
All nice and we all agree.
So, let's me sum up, we should accept:
1) Refugees. The TRUE ones, that means women and children and elderly people actually fleeing from war.
First problem though, most Syrians who flee from Turkey are not refugees actually since they don't escape from war any more.
What do we do?
I'd say that helping countries like Liban (no billions for them though, thanks EU) and Jordan and setting camp THERE where to select people who deserves to come (orphans or disables for example, minorities such as Kurds, Yazidis or Christians).
2) Political prisoners
For example, had that Syrian blogger recently executed by those subhumans asked for asylum, I'd have taken her, no matter her religion.
The same applies for many Turkish journalists who are Muslim and also courageous men.
3) Highly qualified people
For example, the US take every year thousands of highly qualified Indian engineers who help the US.
So should we.
Controversial point is that by taking thousands of African highly qualified people we are also impoverishing that continent, one of the many ways sadly.
4) Needed people
Example, Italy is likely to have a shortage of doctors in the next future: let's take in the best that we can take, like does Australia.
5) Other categories
People with marriages, adoptions, people with VISAS etc.
Wouldn't this be the most reasonable model?
Beware, in the meanwhile the developed world should solve the source of the problems as well.
So far though nothing has been done because it's much more convenient.
I agree with most of your points, except what i have bolded. Aren't middle aged man also refugees. Aren't Kurd, Yazidis or even Shia men who getting persecuted by IS or political victims (mostly men) of the Assad regime refugees. Aren't those hundreds of Syrians who don't have anything left because of war also refugees? In this exact moment, most Syrians are indeed refugees as war is taking place in most of the country and few areas have been left unscathed (mostly the Western half of it where there's still guerrilla)
The problem for me is that only a few countries are willing to take the burden of hosting them, if they were equally distributed according to a few criterias (population; number of refugees already hosted; GDP; ecc.) there would be no such problem in a few Western European countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander.XVII
Exactly.
A British study found that a person from Ghana (i.e. one of the wealthiest and most developed West African nations) to reach Europe had to pay what it would mean to an average Europe 100,000 €, on the spot.
Now, turn this into what it means for an African.
Absolutely right.
Look here: https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-eu...oals-in-europe
It says that within 2020 Germany will need over 400,000 new people in order to balance its need of manpower.
So, why do you think that they don't open their legal processes for all the Europeans that don't have a work?
I mean, the large majority of that number may be filled just by Italians (I mean, there's no shortage of unemployed manpower, especially in Southern Europe).
Yet, why do you think that our ruling elite prefers to import foreign people?
Because it's called salarial dumping and it will inevitably shrink wages and social rights as it is already happening because of globalisation.
It's called 'competition of the work' and it calls to increase 'profit' by reducing the cost of production, i.e. salaries in most cases.
You are already seeing what it means here in Italy or in Greece.
Who made those interventions WANT the influx NOT to stop, it's deliberate design aimed at balkanising Europe and destroying the fruit of over one century of social struggles.
"a few"?
Over 400,000 people passed from Greece alone.
It's not that simple.
Poland has been affected since it has received many thousands (I read up to 200,000) Ukrainian refugees (who are not newsworthy apparently) for example.
Eastern countries have always called for the control at the external part whereas Germany has irresponsibly favoured a massive entries of illegals by promoting the 'Germany can receive 1,000,000 people by year'.
Even Sweden, the racial nirvana leftists drool over, has closed its borders.
The problem is that nowadays, even us Southern Europeans aren't that willing to work manually. Nowadays Italian, Spanish or Greek youth doesn't aspire to work as a carpenter, bricklayer or electrician and that's why immigrants could be and are already needed, they are willing to do the hard physical work for us and even at lower prices (sometimes excessively low) as you have said. The most obvious way to prevent this for me is to set a minimum wage and more benefits to whoever is willing to find jobs in these fields
Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia could still sustain a higher number of refugees than they have already done and help us over. All in all, we hosted their people for years after the fall of the Berlin Wall but all of a sudden they don't remember this anymore
At least for me, Sweden isn't an example to look at, it's let in terms of immigration policy. It's let in simply too much people (relatively to its pop.of course) in a too short time to make it hard for them to integrate fully and to avoid the creation of ethnic areas.
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