Moving to Netherlands (safe, German, work, stereotype)

[Londoncowboy30]

Originally Posted by CBMD

My oh my, seems like you didn't do your research. Rudest people in the western world.......wait til you get to Germany.......

French bar none the most arrogant in Europe ( poss the world )

[drro]

Originally Posted by CBMD

I would echo what others have said about not bringing furniture etc. Because cost of living in Europe generally is higher, you may find you want as well as need a smaller apt. Take note of what's been said about the cost of parking. Netherlands is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, even by SoCal standards.

That's actually not true, the Netherlands is much cheaper than the densily populated US states on the East or West coast that resemble Europe the most. A small appartment in Boston or San Fransisco is $3000+ rent a month these days, groceries, health care, going to college, all kinds of insurance, cell phone plans, broadband internet, and some other things are much cheaper here too. And the Netherlands is one of the most expensive countries in Europe.

If you want to compare it to rural Mississippi, the Netherlands is probably more expensive, but when comparing apples to apples it is actually much cheaper than the US. But tt's still very expensive for the local salaries.

[irman]

Originally Posted by dutchfan007

Is it worth bringing my home appliances? like TV etc? I know the power band is different, but if they are priced higher I can rather bring it from here and use a converter..

If your appliances are multi voltage AND not dependent on a clock, OK to bring.

If your TV can change TV systems (NTSC vs PAL), OK to bring.

If you are planning to bring your fridge and freezer ...
think twice, they are probably way too big ...
depends on how big your abode will be !
When you have to take the doors off to move them they will be too big !!

USA beds are way wider than European beds - they may not fit in the rooms you will end up with !!

Your USA living room furniture may *all* fit in your new living room but I doubt if you can still walk on the floor ...

The walk-in closet. your wife may be used to, will by all probability not exist where you are ending up ...
If there is a closet, it will be rather smallish !

What we did twice (not to the Netherlands but to Germany and Switzerland),
was for me to go first, and then bring over the Family permanent,
after they visited once before the final move.
In the mean time I looked for places to live, and had those *approved* by the Missus.

In the end we did (twice) leave everything big in storage in the USA, or sell most of it off.
Then buy a lot of stuff at IKEA. We bought in Sweden and got our tax back on the border and did not tell the rest we bought stuff ... OH well. Took us a couple of months to get all the stuff (going on vacation in a VW bus and camping trailer - most of the stuff from IKEA comes in flat pack ...
We had 5 kids, so on the border we handed over 7 passports and kept the border douane busy counting heads. They never looked into the small enclosed trailer we were pulling ...
When we left we sold it all to the next renter !

May work in The Netherlands ???

Last but not least, take a very good look at your work contract !!
If, never say never, your family will not like it, how will you get back WITH all your furniture.
We stayed over 8 years in Germany, sold the company, and went back,
for some of the kids to attend the UNI.
Nothing wrong with local education but it was a choice the kids made.
In Switzerland we had to get back after a few years, because of some funny immigration laws.
When kids turn 18 in Switzerland they loose their permits to live there with us and had to go back Stateside.
Wife says - over my dead body -- rest is history.

As always when changing habitat, many things *Wow*, other things *WTH* ???
Get used to it and have a great time.

Regarding IKEA ---
Not the greatest life long furniture but it WILL last the 5 years you will be there.
We have stuff still today we bought in the 80's !!
Still looking good ! But we bought the real wood stuff !!

Last But Not Least.
You will be a guest in that new country, so behave like one.
Loose your American attitude and adapt to theirs *as quick as you can* !!
Do not try to make Americans out of Dutch people !!
Make a sincere effort to learn the local language !
If you are a church attending family find a church to go to,
the fastest way to make friends for a life time !!
If all else fails, at least, after 5 years, your family will end up multi lingual !

[CBMD]

Originally Posted by drro

That's actually not true, the Netherlands is much cheaper than the densily populated US states on the East or West coast that resemble Europe the most. A small appartment in Boston or San Fransisco is $3000+ rent a month these days, groceries, health care, going to college, all kinds of insurance, cell phone plans, broadband internet, and some other things are much cheaper here too. And the Netherlands is one of the most expensive countries in Europe.

If you want to compare it to rural Mississippi, the Netherlands is probably more expensive, but when comparing apples to apples it is actually much cheaper than the US. But tt's still very expensive for the local salaries.

Don't agree at all, and more posters in the thread so far disagree with you on one or more aspects of your theory including economics/finance. Generally speaking Americans arriving in Europe suffer sticker shock. That's not to say that I think everything you said is wrong.

I own 2,500 sf house a 20 minute drive from the US Capitol building, and also a 2,000 sf house a 20 minute drive from downtown Dublin. US house is worth $200 a sf, Dublin E425 a sf.

Here's a comparison of international housing costs, measured against both rent and income.

House prices: countries with the cheapest and most expensive property markets - Telegraph

[ulta]

Originally Posted by irman

If your appliances are multi voltage AND not dependent on a clock, OK to bring.

If your TV can change TV systems (NTSC vs PAL), OK to bring.

If you are planning to bring your fridge and freezer ...
think twice, they are probably way too big ...
depends on how big your abode will be !
When you have to take the doors off to move them they will be too big !!

USA beds are way wider than European beds - they may not fit in the rooms you will end up with !!

Your USA living room furniture may *all* fit in your new living room but I doubt if you can still walk on the floor ...

The walk-in closet. your wife may be used to, will by all probability not exist where you are ending up ...
If there is a closet, it will be rather smallish !

What we did twice (not to the Netherlands but to Germany and Switzerland),
was for me to go first, and then bring over the Family permanent,
after they visited once before the final move.
In the mean time I looked for places to live, and had those *approved* by the Missus.

In the end we did (twice) leave everything big in storage in the USA, or sell most of it off.
Then buy a lot of stuff at IKEA. We bought in Sweden and got our tax back on the border and did not tell the rest we bought stuff ... OH well. Took us a couple of months to get all the stuff (going on vacation in a VW bus and camping trailer - most of the stuff from IKEA comes in flat pack ...
We had 5 kids, so on the border we handed over 7 passports and kept the border douane busy counting heads. They never looked into the small enclosed trailer we were pulling ...
When we left we sold it all to the next renter !

May work in The Netherlands ???

Last but not least, take a very good look at your work contract !!
If, never say never, your family will not like it, how will you get back WITH all your furniture.
We stayed over 8 years in Germany, sold the company, and went back,
for some of the kids to attend the UNI.
Nothing wrong with local education but it was a choice the kids made.
In Switzerland we had to get back after a few years, because of some funny immigration laws.
When kids turn 18 in Switzerland they loose their permits to live there with us and had to go back Stateside.
Wife says - over my dead body -- rest is history.

As always when changing habitat, many things *Wow*, other things *WTH* ???
Get used to it and have a great time.

Regarding IKEA ---
Not the greatest life long furniture but it WILL last the 5 years you will be there.
We have stuff still today we bought in the 80's !!
Still looking good ! But we bought the real wood stuff !!

Last But Not Least.
You will be a guest in that new country, so behave like one.
Loose your American attitude and adapt to theirs *as quick as you can* !!
Do not try to make Americans out of Dutch people !!
Make a sincere effort to learn the local language !
If you are a church attending family find a church to go to,
the fastest way to make friends for a life time !!
If all else fails, at least, after 5 years, your family will end up multi lingual !

this is by far the best advise here.... spoken like a true expat!

[seixal]

Originally Posted by CBMD

Don't agree at all, and more posters in the thread so far disagree with you on one or more aspects of your theory including economics/finance. Generally speaking Americans arriving in Europe suffer sticker shock. That's not to say that I think everything you said is wrong.

I own 2,500 sf house a 20 minute drive from the US Capitol building, and also a 2,000 sf house a 20 minute drive from downtown Dublin. US house is worth $200 a sf, Dublin E425 a sf.

Here's a comparison of international housing costs, measured against both rent and income.

House prices: countries with the cheapest and most expensive property markets - Telegraph

I beg to differ. I moved from Paris to LA, which are comparable cities in terms of importance and I can tell you that Paris might be expensive but Los Angeles is even worse. Seeing rooms for rent at $700-800 is not uncommon. For that money you have 2 bed room in a nice building in Paris, unlike the cardboard appartment complexes you see all around town.

[irman]

Originally Posted by ulta

this is by far the best advise here.... spoken like a true expat!

Thank you !
Uhmmm expat ...
I am originally from the Netherlands lived there for 5 years only,
but lived in the USA longer than anywhere else ...

[OZpharmer]

Originally Posted by drro

Why not visit first for a few weeks or months instead of committing yourself for 5 years? I moved from the US several years ago and there are many drawbacks:

- rudest people in the western world: can't wait in queues, push you in grocery stores, take right of way, horrible driving standards
- dirty and sometimes poorly maintained public transporation
- housing is very expensive and cramped although generally better quality than the US
- salaries are very low compared to col, although expats are probably paid better than the local population
- cars and fuel are very expensive compared to the US, although used cars are generally cheaper
- people seem stressed und unhappy overall
- generaly overcrowded
- high crime and lack of will of police to do anything about it. They are not taking you seriously when reporting crime.
- many people living on welfare from your tax money
- there are active policies to lower the standard of living for the middle class: 'loonmatiging' and 'nivellering'

I consider moving here a mistake, I am actively looking at moving to Germany at the moment.

How do you know Germany is better? I've read so many negative comments in the German forums too(by google search results).

[irman]

Originally Posted by drro

Why not visit first for a few weeks or months instead of committing yourself for 5 years? I moved from the US several years ago and there are many drawbacks:

- rudest --- Snipped ---'nivellering'

I consider moving here a mistake, I am actively looking at moving to Germany at the moment.

Any positive experience(s), you might want to share here ??


<<<visit first for a few weeks or months instead of committing yourself for 5 years?>>>
Which job will allow you to do that ???

[irman]

To the OP

One more piece of advice for your 5 year stint.

I know you will have the desire to visit places.
Do that as soon as you can ! Do not wait !!
Before you know it, you will be packing up to go home !!