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Because Taganrog is located West of the Don and Donets rivers.
Because they are the foundation of Russia.
Kiev also played a very important roll in the foundation of Russia so from that understanding Ukraine is not part of Europe. Also what do you have againts Russians. And no Karelia does not belong to Finland if anything it belongs to Karelians. Which by the Finland doesn't even speak a European language, they speak in fino-Uralic one and their ancestral home land is the Ural Mountains, where as Russia's ancestral home land is Ukraine.
Kiev also played a very important roll in the foundation of Russia so from that understanding Ukraine is not part of Europe. Also what do you have againts Russians. And no Karelia does not belong to Finland if anything it belongs to Karelians. Which by the Finland doesn't even speak a European language, they speak in fino-Uralic one and their ancestral home land is the Ural Mountains, where as Russia's ancestral home land is Ukraine.
They conquered Kiev in 882, its not their ancestral home land.
You can move my boundary line from the Donets to the Dnieper river if you want.
The area of Russian Karelia you included never belonged to Finland... ever. Look up Treaty of Noteborg (with Sweden) and Treaty of Novgorod (with Norway), the original oldest treaties for these lands.
And again, why does Pskov and Novgorod being Russian cities excludes them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy-040
They conquered Kiev in 882, its not their ancestral home land.
WTF, where is russian ancestral home land? Do you think Russians just magically appear in Holmgard in 800s from an alien space ship? Slavs are the largest European tribe, and all east slavs (that includes russians) originate from the modern Poland-Belarus-Ukraine-western Russia area, just north and east of Carpathian mountains.
The only non-European tribes in current Europe that have their own countries are the Finns, Magyars (Hungarians), and Estonians.
1.The area of Russian Karelia you included never belonged to Finland... ever. Look up Treaty of Noteborg (with Sweden) and Treaty of Novgorod (with Norway), the original oldest treaties for these lands.
And again, why does Pskov and Novgorod being Russian cities excludes them?
WTF, where is russian ancestral home land? Do you think Russians just magically appear in Holmgard in 800s from an alien space ship? All east slavs (that includes russians) originate from the Poland-Belarus-Ukraine-western Russia area, just north and east of Carpathian mountains.
The Russian ancestral home land is Novgorod and Vladimir.
Davy-040 you are aware that in the 800s there was no such thing as a Russian or Russian language. They were just Rus and spoke an extinct East Slavic language that later on split into Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian. It would be like saying that Norway is not European but Sweden and Denmark are. This makes no sense. What makes Russians so different from their Ukrainian and Belorussian brothers that they are excluded from your European family. Either way I think it should be up the op to define what is and isn't Europe. Also Europe is a very diverse continent it's not just the Netherlands.
Davy-040 you are aware that in the 800s there was no such thing as a Russian or Russian language. They were just Rus and spoke an extinct East Slavic language that later on split into Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian.
What makes Russians so different from their Ukrainian and Belorussian brothers that they are excluded from your European family.
That map is from 1080, not the 800's. the Russian language was born in Vladimir, not Ukraine/Belarus but who's talking about languages anyway
Invading, terrorizing, selling weapons to the worst countries in the world POST-WWII is not what Europeans Countries do, don't get me started on the human rights (active organizations luring homosexuals on the internet to later beat them to death)
Russia lost their European license in the Cold War it will take at least another half-century and a complete reformation if they want it back.
Ukraine did the exact same thing, why do you think Ukraine can't control their eastern provinces, because the sold a large portion of their weapons to these countries. Also most Europeans consider lukashenko (president of Belarus) a dictator and worse than Putin. Further more Ukrainians hate gay people even more than Russians do. In general Eastern Europeans are a lot more conservative than the liberal Western Europe, and even then I'm pretty sure there are some die hard conservatives there as well. Also Britain has invaded every country in the world except for a few land locked nations. And NATO has done some shady things as well such as supporting the mujaheddin/Taliban durring the soviet-afghan war and supporting ISIL in the Syrian civil war. Also this European community is a new concept, just a hundred years ago all European nations were fighting one another trying to subdue their neighbors and try to take over as much land as possible. And like I said geography has nothing to do with politics.
I know but i prefer natural borders where possible and Russia needs to be punished anyway for their atrocities.
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