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Norway and Switzerland still have freedom of movement, even though they are outside the EU, right?
Yes, but they have Schengen and all other integration mechanisms in place despite not being in the EU and thus can't affect them. This is definitely not anything Britain wants.
Norway and Switzerland still have freedom of movement, even though they are outside the EU, right? So the UK might end up the same. If you are over 40-50 years old (majority of UKIP voters are), you probably don't want free movement, but the younger generation has different views.
My cousin's bf is British and he and virtually all of his friends are in favour of staying in the EU. (all are under 30yrs)
Switzerland and Norway both have pretty unique deals that weren't brokered when the political environment wasn't as hostile. Also, both deals wouldn't make much sense when considering the demands of the U.K. Namely greater autonomy and restrictions on the freedom of movement of workers.
I actually joined the "Britain Stronger In Europe" campaign this morning, but reading this thread makes me wonder if I should change my mind.
There is so much that is wrong with the EU and it seems impossible to reform from within. It is driven by out-of-touch ideologues - the cabal who changed the Euro from an economic project to a political one, with disastrous consequences. That allowed far too many accession countries in far too quickly (and, yes, the Blair government was a cheer leader for this). That obsess with rubbish like restricting the size of motors in vacuum cleaners whilst happily decamping on a monthly basis from Brussels to Strasbourg just to keep the French happy, and creating a huge environmental footprint in the process (and WE are the ones who are supposed to doing the blackmailing! Ha ha.). That have been negotiating a free trade deal with Canada for SEVEN YEARS!
If the EU fanatics on here are typical, then it's not surprising the thing never reforms, as they seem quite content with it all. Only they are not typical. I own a company that does business in NL, D, DK, S, I (and mainly imports) and my suppliers there all lament the fact that there is precious little COMMON SENSE spoken, and value the UK's practical attitude. If the UK is so unpopular in the rest of Europe, then it baffles me why so many of them are here living and working.
I will vote to remain in the EU as it is the lesser of two evils. The UK cannot carry on with its population growing by 300,000+ every single year - it is unsustainable. I do not believe it will be any different if we leave, however. Half of that increase comes from outside the EU, is perfectly within our control to stop if there was the political will, yet carries on. I fully understand that if we leave, the EU will make it as difficult as possible for the UK - it has no option. If it made life easy, then other sceptical countries may get their own ideas.
I'm sorry others on here are so antagonistic to my country. If they were older, they might have a little more perspective on the UK's contribution to modern Europe. It could be a very different continent had history have been different. Considering the huge NET contribution this country has made to the budget over the years (only Germany pays more) I resent the accusation of "blackmail". I appreciate it might look a little different from the basket case that is southern Italy. As for "degrowth" - I assumed that had been Italian economy policy for the past 2 decades.
I actually joined the "Britain Stronger In Europe" campaign this morning, but reading this thread makes me wonder if I should change my mind.
There is so much that is wrong with the EU and it seems impossible to reform from within. It is driven by out-of-touch ideologues - the cabal who changed the Euro from an economic project to a political one, with disastrous consequences. That allowed far too many accession countries in far too quickly (and, yes, the Blair government was a cheer leader for this). That obsess with rubbish like restricting the size of motors in vacuum cleaners whilst happily decamping on a monthly basis from Brussels to Strasbourg just to keep the French happy, and creating a huge environmental footprint in the process (and WE are the ones who are supposed to doing the blackmailing! Ha ha.). That have been negotiating a free trade deal with Canada for SEVEN YEARS!
If the EU fanatics on here are typical, then it's not surprising the thing never reforms, as they seem quite content with it all. Only they are not typical. I own a company that does business in NL, D, DK, S, I (and mainly imports) and my suppliers there all lament the fact that there is precious little COMMON SENSE spoken, and value the UK's practical attitude. If the UK is so unpopular in the rest of Europe, then it baffles me why so many of them are here living and working.
I will vote to remain in the EU as it is the lesser of two evils. The UK cannot carry on with its population growing by 300,000+ every single year - it is unsustainable. I do not believe it will be any different if we leave, however. Half of that increase comes from outside the EU, is perfectly within our control to stop if there was the political will, yet carries on. I fully understand that if we leave, the EU will make it as difficult as possible for the UK - it has no option. If it made life easy, then other sceptical countries may get their own ideas.
I'm sorry others on here are so antagonistic to my country. If they were older, they might have a little more perspective on the UK's contribution to modern Europe. It could be a very different continent had history have been different. Considering the huge NET contribution this country has made to the budget over the years (only Germany pays more) I resent the accusation of "blackmail". I appreciate it might look a little different from the basket case that is southern Italy. As for "degrowth" - I assumed that had been Italian economy policy for the past 2 decades.
Fair enough
I don't know why so many people dislike David Cameron though. And yet again last year they voted for his party
I think he has a balanced approach towards the EU and managed to get a good deal. Is it just because he failed to deliver his promise to cut immigration?
I understand the issue with immigration, but isn't it right that about half of new migrants come from outside the EU? Why are the numbers so high, given the fact that they can be controlled?
I'm secretly rooting for a Brexit, but only for the sake of drama and hilarity. Lol.
Hahaha! You're not the only one. I am not going for Brexit, but I secretly dream of the faces of Eurocrats and politicians the morning after a "leave" vote. Such as Martin Shulz, who, when asked this morning whether he thought Britain would vote to leave, he said "No, they won't. I know it". That created another 10,000 votes for the "leave" camp!
Likewise, their look of "told you so" when we vote to stay. It's a price I am going to have to pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalya_
I understand the issue with immigration, but isn't it right that about half of new migrants come from outside the EU? Why are the numbers so high, given the fact that they can be controlled?
Yes, that's right, which is why I said precisely that in the post. We could cut down on half of that number, but there isn't the political will. Every time the immigrant rights groups moan, the government gives way. We keep hearing how Indian restaurants are closing down everywhere because there is a shortage of chefs, and the owners are prevented from bringing their cooking "cousins" in from Bangladesh and Pakistan. Nobody mentions the fact that the Muslim population already here has the highest unemployment rate amongst young males of any demographic. TRAIN THEM UP! You have the recipes!
Yes, but they have Schengen and all other integration mechanisms in place despite not being in the EU and thus can't affect them. This is definitely not anything Britain wants.
English love clownish theatricals...just as when the communication cable with Europe was cut and the TIMES printed "The continebr is isolated".
The EU should not pay attention, just ignore them, they will never leave the EEC.
Although I am not keen on the EU and I am of immigrant British Stock. Our continental friends here appear to be missing a key points.
Britain has never been a good European country, as an island it has always had a different perspective towards Europe and the world. Britain has largely focused on the latter than the former.
Also the EU for most countries in Europe is seen as a solution to strengthen democracy across the continent and to prevent any further conflict. The British do not see things this way because
1. They have had unbroken democratic rule to a level unknown by most other European nations since the early 19th century I believe. So the Democracy argument means little to Brits. Their Democracy has seen them through two world wars and won out against fascism/communism (case closed in the British mind)
2. When it comes to conflict as one British minster remarked as Britain attempted to join the then EEC. "We have twice had to save that nation (France) from the other one (Germany) in recent history". The British only involved themselves in European theatre of conflict to prevent the emergence of one overarching European power.
Beyond that the British were largely never that interested in Europe. In recent history they were too busy administering a global empire, the offshoots of which are now more successful than the mother country (America and Australia being notable examples). That is what the European posters are missing, the British always looked out at the world and never focused specifically on the continent. That is why I think De Gaulle was correct in challenging British membership of the EC, because he knew deep down that British ambitions were global rather than local (European). As a result they would be disruptive and bad members.
3. Arrogance, whether folks like to admit it or not. The British often see themselves as above most if not all other European countries (I personally think they have some right to be). They laid down the framework for the modern global economic system, were the first industrialized nation on the planet!, (rightly or wrongly) ran the largest Global empire in human history and can boast all number of scientific firsts from computing to other scientific advances. Thus most Brits would balk at the idea of having to take into account the views of Italians let alone the Polish on any political/economic matters. The idea of having to beg the Polish premier to alter local child welfare laws strikes the british as ridiculous..
Finally as the British were the first country to industrialise and led the way in capitalism's development (Marx singled out Britain for a reason), their focus has always been financial and not political, unlike say the French.
This is why they never warmed to the Euro for example, early concerns the British raised about problems with a monetary union with differing underlying european economies (e.g. Greece vs Germany) and no fiscal harmonization have been validated. The EU is political project and economics is sometimes an aside to political ambitions. The British would never agree with such a stance and hence their dislike the EU.
Also despite all the tough talk from fellow Europeans, Britain currently has a trade deficit of 60 billion pounds with the EU (not including contributions). So just as much as the British need access to European markets you need access to ours (the fifth largest economy in the world)..
But despite all of the above I am still undecided on the remain or leave decision..
Someone showed a map of the richest region in Europe (The UK...) and the poorest (Bulgaria...) and yet Farage and his group of retarded followers keep blaming Bulgaria for their problems. With such logic, such country deserves something worse than the months bombing by the nazis, let alone crying over them for leaving the EU.
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