Deal between UK and EU to avoid Brexit (cost, cultures, speak)
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All of this blackmail of "Who will the UK trade with if they leave?". Well, guess what - there is the rest of the world! Things do not revolve around just Europe for us.
Although I am not keen on the EU and I am of immigrant British Stock. Our continental friends here appear to be missing a key points.
Britain has never been a good European country, as an island it has always had a different perspective towards Europe and the world. Britain has largely focused on the latter than the former.
Also the EU for most countries in Europe is seen as a solution to strengthen democracy across the continent and to prevent any further conflict. The British do not see things this way
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Also despite all the tough talk from fellow Europeans, Britain currently has a trade deficit of 60 billion pounds with the EU (not including contributions). So just as much as the British need access to European markets you need access to ours (the fifth largest economy in the world)..
But despite all of the above I am still undecided on the remain or leave decision..
Excellent post and very, very accurate in its analysis. Barely a word I disagree with.
There is a minority of Brits who certainly USED to see the EU as a bastion of 'ooman rights compared with the cavalier British Parliament and lack of written constitution. Growing up gay in the 70s in a repressive country with discriminatory laws and a sexual hangup that seemed unchangeable, Europe seemed our only chance. Furtive weekends in Amsterdam and other European fleshpots were a release, and we yearned for Britain just to chill out in the European model. It has, of course, done exactly that - to the degree it has surpassed most other member states - particularly its newer, piously religious members. The UK now has the gayest parliament in the world (most openly gay MPs)! Another one came out two weeks ago.
The influence of the EU has been very good in this regard, and without being complacent, I can't see it ever slipping back to the bad old days here.
I'm much older and wiser and have a much more EU sceptical viewpoint these days. Like so many others, I am absolutely split on which way to vote, though tending on "leave" at the moment.
If we do go, I think the EU could be in big trouble - not just because the budget will lose a large net contributor, but because it will open the lid on something it may not be possible to close again. Look at this poll from the most EU-friendly of countries. Almost a mirror image of opinion in the UK.
I actually wonder what proportion of the population of the EU actually DO want the complete political union super-state so dreamed of by the fanatical ideologues who are driving the whole thing?
I disagree Natalya ( where are you from?) Britain will become stronger once/if we leave. East Europeans have damaged British workers salaries, builders were on £15 an hour and now are on £7.00 an hour, and what taxes they do pay help to pay for East European babies still living in Eastern Europe, it is madness...Not what the EU should be about. Improb mentioned a project and that it what it is. I was fairly neutral until Germany went mad and opened it`s borders to sex mad young North Africans. Pakistanis and Afghans ( I agree Syrians need help). From the ground here Britain will leave but it will be tight. Also Euro is always snidy and negative to Britain bordering on hatred
I'm not living in the UK, don't worry
Yes, I agree that migrant labour may have undercut the local workers, but don't forget your goverment in 2004 allowed that to happen. They didn't put the 7 year restrictions on the then newly joined EU members. Most of the wealthy EU countries applied those restrictions, but Britain didn't. I agree that the refugee/migrant crisis will probably push more people to vote leave..
I think in the end people will see it is a risk. In my opinion in today's unstable world it's not wise to take big risks.
I can't see how are my comments "bordering hatred..." when I'm just highlighting some of the illogical positions of the UKIP, such as: the borderline idiotism to ban documentaries about global warming (?) or what Farage said that gay marriage legal will make other people gay. His admiration for Putin is just a drop in the ocean of weirdness.
And I'm now devoting some time about the UKIP/UK etc. as they're in the news with Brexit. If Holland was planning "Hole-it" or whatever then if this makes you feel better I have even more positive opinion about Gerd Wilders and his...haircut .
The problem is that you don't even give me a source, i'm not from Eastern nor from the UK so i may not know much about Farage and his stance on immigration from Eastern European immigration when compared to immigration from Extra-European countries
Actually as long as you don't have a basis for your rumblings, i will keep cconsidering them as such
I actually wonder what proportion of the population of the EU actually DO want the complete political union super-state so dreamed of by the fanatical ideologues who are driving the whole thing?
The issue with referendum is it only shows the population's wish of the moment. Take the UK. 5 years ago the IN would have win without a doubt.
What's irritating me with those referendums is that you can have an infinite amount of vote IN, but in the end you just need a OUT once to leave. That's why many Canadians are pissed off about Quebecers. Or Spanish about Catalans. French about Corsican. And so on. They don't stop to threatening to leave. But in the end, they don't. Even if during the last ten years they seemed happy to be in their respective union, you don't know what their mood would be the next year.
The UK was the main country wanting to expand the EU to the east. And now, because the EU expanded and many Poles moved to their shores, they want to leave. I mean, take your responsibility.
It would be really a loss if the UK left.. They are and still will be European. Even if some British think of themselves as different than continentals (which is true, but no more than any European country is different than its counterparts) it's exactly why we need the UK in.
Instead of threatening to leave every 20 years and barely participating in the European debate to then say your politicians were ignored. Go fully in the battle for Europe. The Northern country would be happy to have you as the proponent of a more liberal and loose EU. Even many French and German would back you. Instead of complaining about a lack of democracy, launch a big campaign to restore democracy on a European scale. And believe me, all European would gladly follow UK's lead. We, Europeans, need a political active UK leading reforming ideas to counterweight France and Germany and their status-quo, not an isolationist UK blackmailing the EU.
Came across a web site that promotes a Free Trade Agreement between the UK and the USA.
Note-Austraila and and United States established a similar agreement about a decade ago, so there is something of a precedent.
Free Trade Agreements without a bit of political union are absolutely the worst. Anyone thinking the EU isn't democratic should call FTAs simply corporate dictatorship. Any firm can sue a country if they pass a law which "damage" them, countries lose most of the control they have on patents and environmental protection, and social rights fall to the lower common denominator.
^ There is video interview on youtube about saying this exactly.
I don't doubt these things but the statements i don't agree on is that he doesn't oppose migration from Extra European countries. Farage seems the kind of politician who wouldn't want a large influx neither of Romanians nor Italians nor Pakistani but i may be wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by JedlaRoche
The issue with referendum is it only shows the population's wish of the moment. Take the UK. 5 years ago the IN would have win without a doubt.
What's irritating me with those referendums is that you can have an infinite amount of vote IN, but in the end you just need a OUT once to leave. That's why many Canadians are pissed off about Quebecers. Or Spanish about Catalans. French about Corsican. And so on. They don't stop to threatening to leave. But in the end, they don't. Even if during the last ten years they seemed happy to be in their respective union, you don't know what their mood would be the next year.
The UK was the main country wanting to expand the EU to the east. And now, because the EU expanded and many Poles moved to their shores, they want to leave. I mean, take your responsibility.
It would be really a loss if the UK left.. They are and still will be European. Even if some British think of themselves as different than continentals (which is true, but no more than any European country is different than its counterparts) it's exactly why we need the UK in.
Instead of threatening to leave every 20 years and barely participating in the European debate to then say your politicians were ignored. Go fully in the battle for Europe. The Northern country would be happy to have you as the proponent of a more liberal and loose EU. Even many French and German would back you. Instead of complaining about a lack of democracy, launch a big campaign to restore democracy on a European scale. And believe me, all European would gladly follow UK's lead. We, Europeans, need a political active UK leading reforming ideas to counterweight France and Germany and their status-quo, not an isolationist UK blackmailing the EU.
Fully agree with you.
Heck, Renzi is fighting hard (simply because the Italian Democratic PArty holds a relative majority in the PSE) to turn the PSE into something that can battle against the implemention of austerity and that can battle for more transparency (he even invited Jeremy Corbyn at the next meeting between European Socialist leaders). Yanis Varoufakis created Diem2025 for pushing towards more of a political union and transparency.
Why couldn't a British politician such as Corbyn, Johnson, Cameron fight to implement his ideas in the European Union.
Actually, in terms of volume the USA is the number one trading partner of the UK.
Sure, but the trade between UK and the rest of the EU collectively is far, far greater than that.
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