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Someone showed a map of the richest region in Europe (The UK...) and the poorest (Bulgaria...) and yet Farage and his group of retarded followers keep blaming Bulgaria for their problems. With such logic, such country deserves something worse than the months bombing by the nazis, let alone crying over them for leaving the EU.
Stop with your victim complex, i doubt Farage even cares for you, he's just using you in the old "they are coming to steal our jobs" rhetoric which gets him the vote of the working class even though he is a ***** of the wealthiest just as much as a large swath of the Tories
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Originally Posted by nograviti
Although I am not keen on the EU and I am of immigrant British Stock. Our continental friends here appear to be missing a key points.
Britain has never been a good European country, as an island it has always had a different perspective towards Europe and the world. Britain has largely focused on the latter than the former.
Also the EU for most countries in Europe is seen as a solution to strengthen democracy across the continent and to prevent any further conflict. The British do not see things this way because
1. They have had unbroken democratic rule to a level unknown by most other European nations since the early 19th century I believe. So the Democracy argument means little to Brits. Their Democracy has seen them through two world wars and won out against fascism/communism (case closed in the British mind)
2. When it comes to conflict as one British minster remarked as Britain attempted to join the then EEC. "We have twice had to save that nation (France) from the other one (Germany) in recent history". The British only involved themselves in European theatre of conflict to prevent the emergence of one overarching European power.
Beyond that the British were largely never that interested in Europe. In recent history they were too busy administering a global empire, the offshoots of which are now more successful than the mother country (America and Australia being notable examples). That is what the European posters are missing, the British always looked out at the world and never focused specifically on the continent. That is why I think De Gaulle was correct in challenging British membership of the EC, because he knew deep down that British ambitions were global rather than local (European). As a result they would be disruptive and bad members.
3. Arrogance, whether folks like to admit it or not. The British often see themselves as above most if not all other European countries (I personally think they have some right to be). They laid down the framework for the modern global economic system, were the first industrialized nation on the planet!, (rightly or wrongly) ran the largest Global empire in human history and can boast all number of scientific firsts from computing to other scientific advances. Thus most Brits would balk at the idea of having to take into account the views of Italians let alone the Polish on any political/economic matters. The idea of having to beg the Polish premier to alter local child welfare laws strikes the british as ridiculous..
Finally as the British were the first country to industrialise and led the way in capitalism's development (Marx singled out Britain for a reason), their focus has always been financial and not political, unlike say the French.
This is why they never warmed to the Euro for example, early concerns the British raised about problems with a monetary union with differing underlying european economies (e.g. Greece vs Germany) and no fiscal harmonization have been validated. The EU is political project and economics is sometimes an aside to political ambitions. The British would never agree with such a stance and hence their dislike the EU.
Also despite all the tough talk from fellow Europeans, Britain currently has a trade deficit of 60 billion pounds with the EU (not including contributions). So just as much as the British need access to European markets you need access to ours (the fifth largest economy in the world)..
But despite all of the above I am still undecided on the remain or leave decision..
This seems a pretty reasonable explaination. I really appreciated reading through it, i wonder if some of the British based users will think of this but it doesn't surprise me. The British have always had a more global outlook and often don't even consider themselves European despite sitting in the middle of the European plate.
Anyway, it seems to me that Britain seems to work more (although it still tends to isolate itself and not take center stage as it should) in the European context every time the Labour get elected.
I have also read on an Italian paper that Boris Johnson aims to have the STAY vote win narrowly so he and the Tories on the whole can put further pressure on EU in the future to get even more of a special status. If true, how is that not blackmailing?
I hope British people vote for leaving because it makes no sense staying if they don't contribute to the project and undermine it (same goes for Austria and the Visegrad 4 by the way)
There's no victim complex. Just because you read Italian news and not English ones doesn't mean in the UK people "care" only about countries that are big and popular.
They definitely care to bring more Muslims from Pakistan but also care to spread anti-European and anti-Eastern European/Bulgarian rhetoric. Yet, as you will agree both Pakistan and Bulgaria are small countries, so in your logic nobody should care about them.
All the true European countries including the UK need to grow a sack
and stop non-European immigration and abuse.
Stop letting your countries be altered irrevocably or even destroyed,
whether its by banking cartels stealing from the people or by waves of bloodsuckers.
Are both not parasites ? Do something about it.
Europe was never a land of cowards.
There's no victim complex. Just because you read Italian news and not English ones doesn't mean in the UK people "care" only about countries that are big and popular.
They definitely care to bring more Muslims from Pakistan but also care to spread anti-European and anti-Eastern European/Bulgarian rhetoric. Yet, as you will agree both Pakistan and Bulgaria are small countries, so in your logic nobody should care about them.
I wasn't implying that the UK as a whole doesn't care about your country, otherwise it wouldn't be in Farage's speeches but i doubt he actually cares, he's just using you to attract votes. Aside from that, i would be surprised if Farage had ever spoken positively of immigration from outside the European Union as Muslim countries are usually the main target of far right wingers
There's no victim complex. Just because you read Italian news and not English ones doesn't mean in the UK people "care" only about countries that are big and popular.
They definitely care to bring more Muslims from Pakistan but also care to spread anti-European and anti-Eastern European/Bulgarian rhetoric. Yet, as you will agree both Pakistan and Bulgaria are small countries, so in your logic nobody should care about them.
They just say that people from east Europe can move freely to the UK, but commonwealth countries such as India don't have that access. Bulgaria is one of the countries that joined last, I doubt that you would even be mentioned if you joined back in 2004.
I'm not defending Farage though, he is obviously xenophobic and apparently he admires Putin as well
I think the UK would become poorer if she leaves the EU and only the low-skilled British workers will benefit from it because of less people coming "stealing" their jobs.
I disagree Natalya ( where are you from?) Britain will become stronger once/if we leave. East Europeans have damaged British workers salaries, builders were on £15 an hour and now are on £7.00 an hour, and what taxes they do pay help to pay for East European babies still living in Eastern Europe, it is madness...Not what the EU should be about. Improb mentioned a project and that it what it is. I was fairly neutral until Germany went mad and opened it`s borders to sex mad young North Africans. Pakistanis and Afghans ( I agree Syrians need help). From the ground here Britain will leave but it will be tight. Also Euro is always snidy and negative to Britain bordering on hatred
I disagree Natalya ( where are you from?) Britain will become stronger once/if we leave. East Europeans have damaged British workers salaries, builders were on £15 an hour and now are on £7.00 an hour, and what taxes they do pay help to pay for East European babies still living in Eastern Europe, it is madness...Not what the EU should be about. Improb mentioned a project and that it what it is. I was fairly neutral until Germany went mad and opened it`s borders to sex mad young North Africans. Pakistanis and Afghans ( I agree Syrians need help). From the ground here Britain will leave but it will be tight. Also Euro is always snidy and negative to Britain bordering on hatred
Your islamophilic politicians will keep on bringing 3rd world muslims into the UK who don't bother to work in the first place but rather vegetate on handouts. Leaving the EU won't change anything 'bout that.
I disagree Natalya ( where are you from?) Britain will become stronger once/if we leave. East Europeans have damaged British workers salaries, builders were on £15 an hour and now are on £7.00 an hour, and what taxes they do pay help to pay for East European babies still living in Eastern Europe, it is madness...Not what the EU should be about. Improb mentioned a project and that it what it is. I was fairly neutral until Germany went mad and opened it`s borders to sex mad young North Africans. Pakistanis and Afghans ( I agree Syrians need help). From the ground here Britain will leave but it will be tight. Also Euro is always snidy and negative to Britain bordering on hatred
I don't think Natalya is far off. Eastern Europeans haven't damaged British workers salaries, 30 and more years of Conservative governments (and Tony Blair) have. There's a solution to the current problems and that's setting up minimum wages for each work relative to the area someone is living in (in a way that the minimum wage for a Londoner could reflect how much more expensive life is for a citizen there)
Aside from that, most of what you said is nonsensical. For example, are all North Africans sex mad? I doubt it, it's a different culture and a couple of them have a hard time adapting but that's it. Why should Syrians get help and Afghans (who are in the midst of a low effort civil war and constantly under the thread of Islamic Fundamentalist groups) shouldn't? You talk about the number of Pakistanis increasing since Germany opened the door to migrants but why is there a negligible number of them outside the UK? You talk as if Germany is the only country comprising the EU parliament but why hasn't Britain tried to challenge his views in the same way Hungary, Italy, ecc. are in different ways?
EU is simply the easy answer to complicate solutions and has often been scapegoated by English politicians. Now vote to leave so you can finally **** off and stop blackmailing us or vote to stay so that you can finally try to change how EU currently is gathering enough support from within
I can't see how are my comments "bordering hatred..." when I'm just highlighting some of the illogical positions of the UKIP, such as: the borderline idiotism to ban documentaries about global warming (?) or what Farage said that gay marriage legal will make other people gay. His admiration for Putin is just a drop in the ocean of weirdness.
And I'm now devoting some time about the UKIP/UK etc. as they're in the news with Brexit. If Holland was planning "Hole-it" or whatever then if this makes you feel better I have even more positive opinion about Gerd Wilders and his...haircut .
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