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I completely understand your mother's condition. There are different ways to achieve the desired result.All are not able , yes, many are disabled. IT is not those I speak to. Mental or physical disability is another case altogether. Some may be paraplegic or may have fibromyalgia or MS or bedridden. Naturally, rationally, reasonably, these people cannot, haven't the capability to conform to these conditions. How in the world could one imagine that these whom are unable to perform those movements doing them ? That is quite the stretch of the imagination.
This physical condition I wrote of is only availabe to those who can, do it, and so achieve those results. How could anyone imagine otherwise? It would be irrational to imagine otherwise, I am sure.
A Mr. America or Miss America type physical condition can only be achieved by those with the ability and genetics and of course the wheelchair bound etc, a misfortune I am sure of course, but these were not included in this explanation also, of course. People can still, train around injuries or disabled limbs to a degree. There are ways to get around a misfortune. Setbacks are merely barriers.
Perhaps train for aerobic capacity with the arms. Not always, if still not possible ,then just a juxtaposition of diet can remedy overweight conditions also. Far More difficult and far more time consumming but not impossible.
Not everything can be remedied with exercise. No. Exercise accelerates the weight loss process, that is all.
However, long term weight management can still be achieved without exercise. Particularly with active people who work for a living. Far easier than people with a completely sedentary desk bound type job.
THese are the types who can exercise, who can sit on a stationary bike twice a day, because they have the ability to. Those who cannot, simply cannot. Listen and learn now.
I have a very close friend who was a heavy equipment operator for nearly forty years and ended up with sacroiliitis. IT is bad. Really, really bad. Spinal taps etc. THe result of forty years on bulldozers etc. The work is far, far rougher than truck driving. Tractors have no shock absorbing suspension and are therefor a bone jarring ride.The dislocation of the sacrum it is, the joint between the hip and spine but it does not stop him from training. SO, of course I am familiar with, that you speak of.
However, this does not stop friend from working around this medical condition. THere can be no load bearing weight on the lower back. At all. He is in terriific condition though- all by doing upper body and abdominal exercises from a seated incline position. You should see him.
His legs have atrophied to a degree, yes, because he cannot work them. He is in physical therapy much of the time too. Far worse shope than your mom. SO yes, I know.
Chiropractor said to him, " If it weren't for your exercising you'd be in a wheel chair by now." "Don't ever stop." He gets around just fine. No running, but can walk really well without a limp, at all. He has come a very ,very long way since he first developed this condition.
Still, so, he is doing really well for being 100% disabled. He cannot even work at all and is in constant pain, always. Cannot even sit in a chair anymore without great discomfort, a polite way of saying- pain.
Exercise aggravates the lower back pain so- great care is taken not to overdo the exercise. Still exercise is stress so it will aggravate the nerve endings that are already inflammed.
Resting heart rate of 69 beats per minute and blood pressure of a twenty five year old. He is 63 years old.
There you have it. Are you getting this yet? If not, forget about it, this has become mere typing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howiester
Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought. What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.
I really love it when people leave replies like this, where they pretty much just dismiss all of my arguments while making exactly zero counter-arguments of their own in favor of just repeating the same old tried "just eat less and move more" meme. Your body is a machine with certain kinds of programing. Not everybody is programed the same, and people's programing can be altered by lifestyle in ways that doesn't always work in their favor.
Ok, here are some counter-arguments;
- You are basically stating that in only one generation, humans have evolved to where being obese is a genetic condition. This counters all evolutionary science.
- This genetic change is regional, whereas some regions have way higher obesity rates than other regions.
- While certainly there are some people, and there always has been people, who are obese due to bio-mechanics, however, you are stating the giant increase in one generation is due to circumstances beyond their control, which is false due to at the minimum the two points above.
- Obesity rates have followed the Western (aka the US) diet. As more and more US inspired diet as crept onto the world stage, the obesity rates have gone higher and higher. This is not a knock at the US, but a knock at the excessive calorie consumption, insulin spiking diet that seems to maybe not originate wholly out of the US, but the US has taken the lead on it.
So no, being obese is a choice for probably 99% of people. Current obesity rates are a recent, very recent phenomenon, which only one generation ago did not exist even half as much, and two generations ago not even measurable.
Additionally, obesity rates are only high in certain regions, and very low in other regions, which counters your argument it is genetic. If it was genetic, we would see an even dispersion rate throughout the US and West. However, there is a 14% spread between the state with the highest and lowest rates. The trend in Arkansas for example shows in 1995, the rate was 17%, and in 2014 it was 35.9%. so in 20 years, the rate has doubled, yet you proclaim this is a non-controllable genetic issue? Genetics changed in 20 years? Absolutely ridiculous argument you have.
- You are basically stating that in only one generation, humans have evolved to where being obese is a genetic condition. This counters all evolutionary science.
- This genetic change is regional, whereas some regions have way higher obesity rates than other regions.
- While certainly there are some people, and there always has been people, who are obese due to bio-mechanics, however, you are stating the giant increase in one generation is due to circumstances beyond their control, which is false due to at the minimum the two points above.
- Obesity rates have followed the Western (aka the US) diet. As more and more US inspired diet as crept onto the world stage, the obesity rates have gone higher and higher. This is not a knock at the US, but a knock at the excessive calorie consumption, insulin spiking diet that seems to maybe not originate wholly out of the US, but the US has taken the lead on it.
So no, being obese is a choice for probably 99% of people. Current obesity rates are a recent, very recent phenomenon, which only one generation ago did not exist even half as much, and two generations ago not even measurable.
Additionally, obesity rates are only high in certain regions, and very low in other regions, which counters your argument it is genetic. If it was genetic, we would see an even dispersion rate throughout the US and West. However, there is a 14% spread between the state with the highest and lowest rates. The trend in Arkansas for example shows in 1995, the rate was 17%, and in 2014 it was 35.9%. so in 20 years, the rate has doubled, yet you proclaim this is a non-controllable genetic issue? Genetics changed in 20 years? Absolutely ridiculous argument you have.
- You are basically stating that in only one generation, humans have evolved to where being obese is a genetic condition. This counters all evolutionary science.
- This genetic change is regional, whereas some regions have way higher obesity rates than other regions.
- While certainly there are some people, and there always has been people, who are obese due to bio-mechanics, however, you are stating the giant increase in one generation is due to circumstances beyond their control, which is false due to at the minimum the two points above.
- Obesity rates have followed the Western (aka the US) diet. As more and more US inspired diet as crept onto the world stage, the obesity rates have gone higher and higher. This is not a knock at the US, but a knock at the excessive calorie consumption, insulin spiking diet that seems to maybe not originate wholly out of the US, but the US has taken the lead on it.
So no, being obese is a choice for probably 99% of people. Current obesity rates are a recent, very recent phenomenon, which only one generation ago did not exist even half as much, and two generations ago not even measurable.
Additionally, obesity rates are only high in certain regions, and very low in other regions, which counters your argument it is genetic. If it was genetic, we would see an even dispersion rate throughout the US and West. However, there is a 14% spread between the state with the highest and lowest rates. The trend in Arkansas for example shows in 1995, the rate was 17%, and in 2014 it was 35.9%. so in 20 years, the rate has doubled, yet you proclaim this is a non-controllable genetic issue? Genetics changed in 20 years? Absolutely ridiculous argument you have.
You win the prize for the BEST, most accurate argument about this thread!
Which programs were those? Assuming they are free as well, since you didn't mention if he had a money objection. But some people can't afford those weight loss programs and they're never covered under insurance (which you know, would save lives and stuff, but it's more about shaming people than helping fix the problem).
So where are all these awesome free weight management programs?
He had access to these programs through our employer ( some covered under our insurance and some for a small fee..less than $50) and what does money have to do with it? If a 600 lb can afford to feed themselves, they can afford Weight Watchers.
I eat healthy. Roughly 2000 calories a day and about 2500 during the weekends. I work out 3 times a week and currently weight roughly 72-73kg. And like most, I agree that good diet and exercise can allow for amazing body transformations for most people.
However, when it comes to obese individuals I think this meme of "just eat less move more" is actually bull****.
I use to believe that as well before I started working out, but after I started educating myself about the human body and how it treats/responds to nutrition, I am now much more sceptical about the idea that obese people are merely obese because they can't change their lifestyle, and believe that many (I said MANY, not all) of their claims about how they can't lose weight might actually be valid. The reason I believe this is because of the fallowing facts (which most people don't know about or understand):
1. Metabolism.
How fast your body burns energy/fat changes depending on how much you eat. If start eating less than before you lose weight for a while, but then your body adapts and starts slowing down your metabolism making weight/fat loss harder. Your body does this to protect you from starvation (it's not like your body cares you are trying to get abs, it just wants you to live). This means the typical argument of "your body can't create energy out of nothing" isn't as valid as it sounds, because by eating less your body will start spending less energy to begin with.
2. Every time you get new fat you did not have before your body generates new fat cells.
When you get rid of fat you lose some fat but your fat cells will not go away. Ever. Your fat cells allow your body to remember your max bodyfat percentage you have ever obtained so that it can more easily obtain it again in the future should you increase your caloric intake. Again, this is a survival mechanic.
3. Your body adapts to the manner in which you live.
Calories in, and calories out. That's how it works, right? No it doesn't. Your body is a living machine that spends the energy you give it depending on what it believes it should be used for. If a person has been very active for most of it's life then your body will adapt to that fact and is more likely to invest calories into muscle building instead of converting them into fat. In a similar manner, if somebody has been obese and inactive since they were small your body will slowly start defaulting into just converting everything into fat because it sees no reason to do anything else. The more active or obese the person is the greater this effect will be.
The point being:
While none of what I said above makes it impossible for "normal fat people" (individuals who are merely fat rather than disgustingly obese) to get back down to normal weight, for individuals who have obtained extreme levels of bodyfat and maintained it for long periods of time, the damage they have caused to their body mechanics via accumulation of large amounts of fat cells, slow metabolism, and the obtaining of a body behaviour that defaults to storing fat rather than building muscle, it is very possible that they will never be able to get back down to normal bodyfat again.
That doesn't mean they can't lose weight. But there is a big difference between losing weight and actually going back to normal. If a 250kg person loses 70kg, that's a lot of lost weight, but the person would still be obese. Things like genetics no doubt play a role, as some obese people might be luckier than others. But generally speaking, I think that for many people obesity might not be something they will ever be able to properly get rid off.
A special note:
Note this doesn't mean obese people aren't to blame for their condition. It's still their fault they got obese in the first place. Also note that nothing of what I said should be considered as an excuse to not try and lose weight. There is also a difference between merely being pretty fat and having high levels of obesity.
The reason I felt the need to create this thread is that I don't like the elitism coming from the fitness community which heavily promotes the idea that obese people are only lazy. I mean don't get me wrong, MOST of them ARE lazy. But there is more to it then that.
Hope this information was helpful and informative
EDIT: Honestly I think this thread should be stickied.
Actually, most obesity IS completely curable in one way or another.
I don't think obese people are lazy. I know a few. They aren't lazy at all. However, the American lifestyle is a sedentary one, and not being sedentary requires a lot of effort and time. Most of the overweight and obese people I know are moms working full-time and taking care of kids. They put on the weight when pregnant and then never had any time to take it off. They commute by car to work (sitting still), work all day (mostly sitting still), then come home and make dinner and go to bed. If you factor in the lack of time to cook healthy meals and easy availability of junk food, you get a recipe for being overweight or, if you are unlucky and have the tendency, obesity.
The problem is not laziness - these people work hard, they just do it mostly sitting down or not moving much. The problem is our lifestyle. From kids in school having only 20 minutes recess a day to jobs that allow only a short lunch break in an 8-9 hour day, we consider physical movement to be something people need to do on their own time - but then no one has any time of their own.
I keep fit by making it a priority every day, but I also sacrifice time with my family and numerous other things to exercise every day. Obesity is a disease of the nation, and requires a national cure.
Shoveling food into one's mouth is not considered exercise.
The quality of what's on the fork is as important as the quantity. It's completely amazing what people eat these days. Processed sugar is about the extent of it.
And people wonder why all the cancer, problems with kids, etc.
Yes, obesity CAN be cured.
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He gets around just fine. No running, but can walk really well without a limp, at all. He has come a very ,very long way since he first developed this condition.
