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Shoveling food into one's mouth is not considered exercise.
The quality of what's on the fork is as important as the quantity. It's completely amazing what people eat these days. Processed sugar is about the extent of it.
And people wonder why all the cancer, problems with kids, etc.
Yes, obesity CAN be cured.
True, but so much easier to blame it on the fast food industry.
Great post! It is not genetics to overeat over processed, over refined, food, this is not the physical state of American genetics. It is crossing generational lines now but due to such immediate availability and mobility, not DNA.
Can we supersize those fries for you? Ever see the people in electric golf carts perusing the junk food isles at the grocery store ?
This stuff is so available- sugary cereals,Doritos, twinkies, donuts, soda pop, milk shakes, hamburgers , fries, fried fish, tv dinners, bakeries, ice cream parlors, dunkin donuts - almost everywhere one drives is a drive-through where deep fried foods are available. If. You can think of it, it is there . For a profit.
Cash or credit ?
This is the human condtion here. Like cigarrettes or tootsie roll candies people become addicted.When I was in college years ago I learned in macro economics that Americans spend the smallest percentage of their incomes for food of anywhere else on earth. Food is cheaper here than anywhere on the planet, because we make so much of it...
I remember even buying packages of ciggarrete candies at the convenience store as a child. Sounds like a set up to me.
There was more disposable income here in the U.S. than anywhere else also. Add the two together and comes the opportunity for McDonalds to open 25,000 restaurants. World Wide.
The American diet is spreading, alright, world wide, in the literal and figurative sense of the word.
It is due to the almighty buck and human weakness for fatty , sugary foods and that immediate reward they give the palate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
Ok, here are some counter-arguments;
- You are basically stating that in only one generation, humans have evolved to where being obese is a genetic condition. This counters all evolutionary science.
- This genetic change is regional, whereas some regions have way higher obesity rates than other regions.
- While certainly there are some people, and there always has been people, who are obese due to bio-mechanics, however, you are stating the giant increase in one generation is due to circumstances beyond their control, which is false due to at the minimum the two points above.
- Obesity rates have followed the Western (aka the US) diet. As more and more US inspired diet as crept onto the world stage, the obesity rates have gone higher and higher. This is not a knock at the US, but a knock at the excessive calorie consumption, insulin spiking diet that seems to maybe not originate wholly out of the US, but the US has taken the lead on it.
So no, being obese is a choice for probably 99% of people. Current obesity rates are a recent, very recent phenomenon, which only one generation ago did not exist even half as much, and two generations ago not even measurable.
Additionally, obesity rates are only high in certain regions, and very low in other regions, which counters your argument it is genetic. If it was genetic, we would see an even dispersion rate throughout the US and West. However, there is a 14% spread between the state with the highest and lowest rates. The trend in Arkansas for example shows in 1995, the rate was 17%, and in 2014 it was 35.9%. so in 20 years, the rate has doubled, yet you proclaim this is a non-controllable genetic issue? Genetics changed in 20 years? Absolutely ridiculous argument you have.
Eating too little/few calories, thereby ruining a normal metabolism, coupled with yoyo dieting, is what makes most people "fat"---especially the folks who are that way in their adult years.
- You are basically stating that in only one generation, humans have evolved to where being obese is a genetic condition. This counters all evolutionary science.
No. I said that because of how obesity changes your body function it may not be possible for everyone to get back to normal. I never said that genetics were the only thing responsible for people getting obese. I was talking about the problems that people have to deal with AFTER getting obese. Your body doesn't work the same before and after obesity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
however, you are stating the giant increase in one generation is due to circumstances beyond their control, which is false due to at the minimum the two points above.
No did not. I never said that genetics were to blame for people becoming obese. You made that up yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
yet you proclaim this is a non-controllable genetic issue? Genetics changed in 20 years? Absolutely ridiculous argument you have.
It's not an argument that I ever had. Let's take a look at my OP, shall we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin
1. Metabolism.
How fast your body burns energy/fat changes depending on how much you eat. If start eating less than before you lose weight for a while, but then your body adapts and starts slowing down your metabolism making weight/fat loss harder. Your body does this to protect you from starvation (it's not like your body cares you are trying to get abs, it just wants you to live). This means the typical argument of "your body can't create energy out of nothing" isn't as valid as it sounds, because by eating less your body will start spending less energy to begin with.
Basically what I said here is that metabolism changes depending on how much you eat and your maximum obtained body weight. This does not run counter against the idea that people can become obese by eating too much. But it DOES mean that some people might find it hard to get rid of all of the extra weight AFTER they have gotten very fat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin
2. Every time you get new fat you did not have before your body generates new fat cells.
When you get rid of fat you lose some fat but your fat cells will not go away. Ever. Your fat cells allow your body to remember your max bodyfat percentage you have ever obtained so that it can more easily obtain it again in the future should you increase your caloric intake. Again, this is a survival mechanic.
Ditto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin
3. Your body adapts to the manner in which you live.
Calories in, and calories out. That's how it works, right? No it doesn't. Your body is a living machine that spends the energy you give it depending on what it believes it should be used for. If a person has been very active for most of it's life then your body will adapt to that fact and is more likely to invest calories into muscle building instead of converting them into fat. In a similar manner, if somebody has been obese and inactive since they were small your body will slowly start defaulting into just converting everything into fat because it sees no reason to do anything else. The more active or obese the person is the greater this effect will be.
What this means, is that while it is the person's fault they get obese to begin with, it's not only their fault they can't STOP BEING obese afterward. The problem here isn't that there is some obese gene that is making lots of people suddenly obese for no reason, it's that AFTER they have gotten obese they find it extremely hard to actually return to normal because they have altered the manner in which their body works. The fact that earlier generations of humans did not get as obese because of garbage food has nothing to do with this. In fact, I OUTRIGHT MENTION that obese people are still to blame for actually getting obese even if they can't really fix it afterward:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin
Note this doesn't mean obese people aren't to blame for their condition. It's still their fault they got obese in the first place.
The only thing you have proved with your "counter-arguments" is that you did not actually read anything that I wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gouligann
You win the prize for the BEST, most accurate argument about this thread!
OP, your argument has been defeated.
He has defeated an argument that I never actually made in the first place.
So no, being obese is a choice for probably 99% of people. Current obesity rates are a recent, very recent phenomenon, which only one generation ago did not exist even half as much, and two generations ago not even measurable.
So true - I graduated a large public high school in 1972. I could count on one hand the overweight teens in my entire school, NOT just the graduating class.
Look at some of the high school age people now - it's scary, many are either scary skinny or terribly overweight already. What is going to happen to these very overweight teens? They are going to marry, have children and probably feed them the same crap that they are eating which made them fat and in turn their children will be fat and unhealthy.
No. I said that because of how obesity changes your body function it may not be possible for everyone to get back to normal. I never said that genetics were the only thing responsible for people getting obese. I was talking about the problems that people have to deal with AFTER getting obese. Your body doesn't work the same before and after obesity.
No did not. I never said that genetics were to blame for people becoming obese. You made that up yourself.
It's not an argument that I ever had. Let's take a look at my OP, shall we?
Basically what I said here is that metabolism changes depending on how much you eat and your maximum obtained body weight. This does not run counter against the idea that people can become obese by eating too much. But it DOES mean that some people might find it hard to get rid of all of the extra weight AFTER they have gotten very fat.
Ditto.
What this means, is that while it is the person's fault they get obese to begin with, it's not only their fault they can't STOP BEING obese afterward. The problem here isn't that there is some obese gene that is making lots of people suddenly obese for no reason, it's that AFTER they have gotten obese they find it extremely hard to actually return to normal because they have altered the manner in which their body works. The fact that earlier generations of humans did not get as obese because of garbage food has nothing to do with this. In fact, I OUTRIGHT MENTION that obese people are still to blame for actually getting obese even if they can't really fix it afterward:
The only thing you have proved with your "counter-arguments" is that you did not actually read anything that I wrote.
He has defeated an argument that I never actually made in the first place.
First, what is 'very fat'? Where is the cut-off?
What is the solution? Or are you saying that all 'very fat' people should give up?
Depends on the individual and his genetics. For some people metabolism allows them to lose weight easily. Others might actually find to too hard to gain weight which can be a problem if they want to do weight lifting (super fast metabolism can harm gains
Quote:
Originally Posted by mochamajesty
What is the solution? Or are you saying that all 'very fat' people should give up?
The only realistic method of treating high levels of obesity is some form of medical treatment. Society would do well to invest in new methods of treating obesity with medicine and medical treatment. That said, if a person is able to solve much of their obesity problem in that way, they would still have to change their lifestyle as well afterward in order to prevent the problem from happening again.
"Adjustable gastric banding achieves only modest weight loss, and even that benefit deteriorates over time in most patients. Edo Aarts, MD, reported at the American Society of Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery meeting that five years after surgery, about two thirds of patients maintained 25% excess weight loss. At 10 years the success rate dropped to less than a third (31%). Using 40% excess weight loss as the standard, resulted in a five-year success rate of about 50%, which declined to 20% at 10 years."
It's still up to you to EAT LESS. This is like saying nicotine gum doesn't work because 25% of the people using it started smoking again in a year. Everybody wants it to be done for them - no effort.
What does my other thread have to do with this one?
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GReat POst,
