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but if women find body hair so gross on themselves it's odd they are so against men following suit. It's all just social conditioning, really.
Social conditioning, exactly. Very few women actually find their own body hair gross.
Anyway, I don't think the issue men being feminine, it's them being perceived as fussy or stuck on themselves. For instance, I am one of those women who does the bare minimum to be perceived as feminine in our society - I will put on a dress for the proper occasion, I shave my legs/arms when I feel like it (though I wish I had never started), and I wear a little makeup now that I'm getting older. That's about it. I don't wear heels, get mani/pedis, have an involved hairstyle, etc. If I'm with a man, I hardly want him to be the type who is going to fuss in the bathroom - for longer than I am in there - grooming to look "just right" rather than just being hygienic and presentable.
For instance if there's a thread about men removing body hair, wearing makeup, caring about fashion, about their body in general, many women seem disdainful and judgemental about it.
I mean ask yourself, who made these things 'feminine' to begin with? Human society did, there's nothing innately feminine about that. In some cultures it is actually men who wear makeup, and in the animal world it's usually males who are the more eye-catching, colourful, 'pretty' gender (think peacocks.etc).
I think there are too many men who buy into the idea that fashion and appearances and looking beautiful is a female domain. This restricted 1950s view of the world will change one day, everything changes. I guess I feel women here at least seem very conservative in terms of their idea of male beauty. Basically men should be 'men' with the very narrow man-made definition.
You know I try to.stay ouf of these topics nowadays because I am not interested in debates but I understand some of what you are saying. Men have always been expected to be a certain way and even as times have changed men are still with the short end of the stick. I agree that society is responsible for this, they make all kinds of clothes and great products for women to stay looking young and look their best but for men there is practically nothing and when men try to take care of their bodies then they are acussed of being gay and wussies and all that crap. Yes our society especially the extremely conservative segment of it is still stuck in the 50's but hey that is how it goes. I take care of myself and have no problem with removing body hair from places I don't like, I don't think it has taken an ounce of manhood out of me.
".....against men being feminine". For instance if there's a thread about men removing body hair, wearing makeup, caring about fashion, about their body in general, many women seem disdainful and judgemental about it. .
Whoa, slow down there. You are all over the board on this. Lets take it one at a time:
1. Removing body hair - Not feminine.
2. Wearing makeup - feminine. Usually means gay (unless they are on tv or in a rock band).
3. Caring about fashion - Not feminine if caring about MENS fashion. Caring about designer purses, accessorizing, and overall "Project Runway" type fashion is feminine and gay.
4. About body in general - Not feminine. If physical (i.e., exercise) this is normal and NOT feminine. If he gets all into moisturizers, non shaving related hydration products, etc. Usually means feminine and/or gay. But for the most part, "body in general" is just basic good health and hygiene.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman
In some cultures it is actually men who wear makeup, and in the animal world it's usually males who are the more eye-catching, colourful, 'pretty' gender (think peacocks.etc). .
This here is 'Merica. This is OUR culture. This isn't the animal world either. This is the good ol Red, White and Blue. We like men to be men, and we like women to be women.
You know folks there is too much ignorance in our society, but some of it is just too much. I hope we evolve soon enough to understand that being a man or being a woman is not just about looks or society's expectations. By some of these opinions it would be fair game to acuse a man who choses to become a cosmetologist or massage therapist or nurse of being feminine or gay simply because "real men don't do those things right"? I am not advocating for men to go out of their way to act like women or act ultra sensitive or anything like that but come on some of the things that men are being ridiculed for are downright ridiculous themselves.
why would anyone be in favor of a man acting/looking like a sissy? I certainly don't like or want women to act like dudes.
nobody is in favor of either. People just accept it. Women around here want nothing more than to go muddin and beer drinking which doesnt do much for me but hey if thats what they wanna do then hey more power to em. But at the same time since i was open minded enough to accept what they do then they can accept what i do.
Social conditioning, exactly. Very few women actually find their own body hair gross.
Anyway, I don't think the issue men being feminine, it's them being perceived as fussy or stuck on themselves. For instance, I am one of those women who does the bare minimum to be perceived as feminine in our society - I will put on a dress for the proper occasion, I shave my legs/arms when I feel like it (though I wish I had never started), and I wear a little makeup now that I'm getting older. That's about it. I don't wear heels, get mani/pedis, have an involved hairstyle, etc. If I'm with a man, I hardly want him to be the type who is going to fuss in the bathroom - for longer than I am in there - grooming to look "just right" rather than just being hygienic and presentable.
Actually they do. Or else they wouldn't say shave their armpits even in winter when they don't show 'em off. Many women still shave all over when they're covered up. When a women decides to stop shaving it is often women who are most vociferous in expressing how disgusting they find it. In little over a few generations it's become taboo.
But yeah, I'm actually not at all the type to fuss about appearance...in fact I'm a borderline slob, I don't even shave more than once a week usually (although it's partly deliberate, since a bit of facial hair makes me look not like an 18 year old lol), just wear what I find comfortable, and do the minimum to stay hygenic...perhaps I should take more care of myself. Anyway, it's just annoying when I see these narrow-minded attitudes.
I'd be cool with a lady like you too...how ladylike and feminine is not based on how you dressed.
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. I dress up like a man, and enjoy rail fanning A LOT (my only defining manly qualities).
