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I'm beginning to wonder if we're being had, and that our collective legs are being pulled. Either that, or someone has a very skewed world view. Imagine looking through the world with that lens--looking at all the "unpretty" women in the world and thinking that they are basically of no worth because they're not hot. WOW!
Yet somehow, the male-female ratio is 50/50, and a lot of women fall short of being smoking hot, but still they manage to get married or have relationships, and mysteriously, the men with them find value in them! How can that be? It doesn't make sense, does it? Don't these men know that their wives/gfs are good for nothing?
I'm beginning to wonder if we're being had, and that our collective legs are being pulled. Either that, or someone has a very skewed world view. Imagine looking through the world with that lens--looking at all the "unpretty" women in the world and thinking that they are basically of no worth because they're not hot. WOW!
Yet somehow, the male-female ratio is 50/50, and a lot of women fall short of being smoking hot, but still they manage to get married or have relationships, and mysteriously, the men with them find value in them! How can that be? It doesn't make sense, does it? Don't these men know that their wives/gfs are good for nothing?
And here we have you, again, twisting the argument into something it never was. First you accuse me of praising trophy wives(by definition) and now, apparently, you are claiming that I find all women worthless unless they're hot? You know as well as everyone else that I said no such thing, not even close. And you can't understand why I think you're intellectually dishonest?
Our conversation is over, elvira. I have nothing more to say to someone who does this.
Your wife's a very pretty woman, iknow. No one could deny that.
She is very pretty. What's more, she's decided to make positive changes in her lifestyle to be healthier and happier. Tragically, it would seem her husband is less than thrilled about this.
And here we have you, again, twisting the argument into something it never was. First you accuse me of praising trophy wives(by definition) and now, apparently, you are claiming that I find all women worthless unless they're hot? You know as well as everyone else that I said no such thing, not even close. And you can't understand why I think you're intellectually dishonest?
I understood exactly what you said, and I applied it in context. Here, let me quote your post right back at you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor
I think you may be underestimating how important visual appeal and sex is to men. Being smart, talented, funny, that's all great, but if she's disgusting to look at, what good is she? Given a choice, I think a large majority would choose the eye candy.
That can only be interpreted to mean, without visual appeal, a woman (as a wife) has no worth. "WHAT GOOD IS SHE?" What else can it mean?
So if a wife loses her looks, her visual appeal, she has no worth as a wife. WHAT GOOD IS SHE? Visual appeal is so important to men, without it, she is no good.
Quote:
Our conversation is over, elvira. I have nothing more to say to someone who does this.
Nope, that's not it. You're just backing out because you were caught saying the above, and can't defend it.
I understood exactly what you said, and I applied it in context. Here, let me quote your post right back at you.
That can only be interpreted to mean, without visual appeal, a woman (as a wife) has no worth. "WHAT GOOD IS SHE?" What else can it mean?
So if a wife loses her looks, her visual appeal, she has no worth as a wife. WHAT GOOD IS SHE? Visual appeal is so important to men, without it, she is no good.
Nope, that's not it. You're just backing out because you were caught saying the above, and can't defend it.
You know as well as I that "disgusting"(what I actually said) and "not hot"(your characterization of what I said) are two very different descriptions. We'll just have to let the other readers who are willing to be objective decide whether that's fair. Goodbye.
She is very pretty. What's more, she's decided to make positive changes in her lifestyle to be healthier and happier. Tragically, it would seem her husband is less than thrilled about this.
I am not certain what is more amusing to me: how laughably misguided the bolded statement is, or that you have the audacity to attempt to pull yourself onto a pedestal at this point in the conversation. Let me help you out: in this conversation you are not on the moral high ground. Here's why. I have always support my wife being the person she wanted to be. It took her some time to finally get traction on her weight loss efforts, but I've been in her corner all the way. When she weighed her highest I loved her as much then as ever. Had you seen her at this time, based on your own words, you would have found her repulsive.
And since you want to talk "intellectual honesty" with Elvira, I'll offer you a challenge. Read the first post in this thread:
You know as well as I that "disgusting"(what I actually said) and "not hot"(your characterization of what I said) are two very different descriptions. We'll just have to let the other readers who are willing to be objective decide whether that's fair. Goodbye.
Oh, so that's it? It's not that they're not WORTH anything as wives, you stand by that belief, it's that "disgusting" is the level at which they're not worth anything.
And you think that's a distinction worth making, and puts you in a more fair light?
But the problem is, you think you can define "disgusting" for everyone in society. But in reality, one person's "disgusting" is another person's "not hot." You seem to think that women who are obese (above a certain poundage that has yet to be determined) are ALL disgusting. But that definition cannot be agreed upon by all of society, so essentially, "disgusting" can be "not hot" can be "hot" can be "not that bad," depending on who you ask.
Oh, wait! That can't be! Because YOU think that YOU have the sole answer to what is "disgusting," and when someone sees it different, there's something wrong with them. Like maybe they're a weirdo who eats monkey brains. And you believe that all of society is completely in line with what YOU think.
And how does that change what I said before--a woman who is disfigured, in a "disgusting" way (according to her husband). "WHAT GOOD IS SHE" now, because her husband finds her appearance now "disgusting." Better that he divorce her immediately! This must be the answer, no? She is no good anymore, is she? She's "disgusting"!
Tell me, if you're married, does you wife know that you value her so little that if her looks were to take a "disgusting" turn (even in a way that she was powerless to change) that you would think "What good is she?" And if you're not married, how do you intend to inform your intended bride that your affections for her are dependent on her looks not taking a drastic downturn? Do you intend to put that in the marriage vows? "In sickness and in health (except if I start finding her looks 'disgusting,' then all bets are off)."
I am not certain what is more amusing to me: how laughably misguided the bolded statement is, or that you have the audacity to attempt to pull yourself onto a pedestal at this point in the conversation. Let me help you out: in this conversation you are not on the moral high ground. Here's why. I have always support my wife being the person she wanted to be. It took her some time to finally get traction on her weight loss efforts, but I've been in her corner all the way. When she weighed her highest I loved her as much then as ever. Had you seen her at this time, based on your own words, you would have found her repulsive.
And since you want to talk "intellectual honesty" with Elvira, I'll offer you a challenge. Read the first post in this thread:
If you have a shred of intellectual honesty your next post will be a retraction of the statement I've bolded. I'll wait.
I'm not trying to 'pull myself onto a pedestal', nor do I claim to have any moral high ground. I don't think this is a moral issue at all. You said your wife was "perfect" when she had gained weight. Your word. If you felt your wife was "perfect", and then changed drastically, isn't it reasonable to conclude that you would be less than thrilled about it? That isn't to say you aren't supportive or happy for her, but that's a different question. We're talking about how you feel.
If my wife wanted to do something great for herself, like spend a year travelling Europe, I could be supportive and happy for her, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I would be personally happy about it.
I have yet to hear you say that you are personally happy about your wife's weight loss. Just give an honest answer to that. I'll wait.
I'm not trying to 'pull myself onto a pedestal', nor do I claim to have any moral high ground. I don't think this is a moral issue at all. You said your wife was "perfect" when she had gained weight. Your word. If you felt your wife was "perfect", and then changed drastically, isn't it reasonable to conclude that you would be less than thrilled about it? That isn't to say you aren't supportive or happy for her, but that's a different question. We're talking about how you feel.
If my wife wanted to do something great for herself, like spend a year travelling Europe, I could be supportive and happy for her, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I would be personally happy about it.
I have yet to hear you say that you are personally happy about your wife's weight loss. Just give an honest answer to that. I'll wait.
You didn't read the first post, did you? I'm not sure how you could have read it, especially the last two paragraphs, and still make this post. Or maybe there is a reading comprehension issue here? Because nobody who actually read the post and has even a small modicum of reading comprehension would ask the bolded after reading, "I am glad to be a part of this effort..." which was written in plain English on the post.
So you either have a problem with reading comprehension (which can be addressed via a class at your local community college to go along with your philosophy class) or you have an issue with intellectual honesty which is a little more difficult to address, but still doable.
OR you can own up to this one and offer that retraction. Still waiting...
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