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Thanks for the note on Mr. Lereah I didn’t hear that – then again I haven’t been interested in anything he says since I found out he was investing in So Fla real estate. He can’t be impartial on his views of the market while holding a position in the same market.
Cash is King but any amount of it and in any currency can be printed at will. Land can’t!!!
What’s more valuable?
My answer to that question is:
1976 Long Island NY - I purchased my first home after leaving my parents home, getting married and renting for 6 months. I was in my early 20’s and quickly realized that I was throwing money out the window by renting. I purchased my first home for 48,500 - 20% down 8.5% 30 fixed. It was difficult but the rest was history:
1981 sold 1st house for 79,900 purchased next home (again LI NY) for 140k
1992 sold that home for 389,000 during a downward regional correction (the home was valued as high as 475K+ 2 years before)
1992 bought my next home again LI NY in the same downward correcting market for 179,000 (downsized) and pocketed some cash for other investments.
2001 sold that home for 379,000 and purchased a condo in FLA for 209,000
2002 sold Fla condo for 266,500
2002 Fla bought new house for 256,200
2003 sold that house for 313,000
2003 bought waterfront home for 440,000. This is my current residence and the community is SELLING for 700k at the low end to 3.2 million on the high end.
My moves in housing have enabled me to send 2 kids to college, live a very nice lifestyle in some very nice communities and now enjoy Fla waterfront and it all started in 1976 busting my butt to afford a small (starter) house that at the time everybody was telling me was above my means and that I should rent a while longer.
I’LL TAKE REAL ESTATE ANY DAY
Wow, that was a good story. But we have had only good times with some small downs. Your current community is selling or was selling for 700k to 3.2 mil. My brother and I made alot of money last september selling some low land to a land broker. we know now that the land was dropped by the buyer and the price is down 350,000 less then we sold it for. Its like the song you have to know when to hold em and know when to fold em. We have been in Florida all our lives. The market here is not like NY or CA. This area is all about risk. I don't think people new to the area see what we do. Buildings get ripped down in 20-30 years. look at schools or city buildings 30 years gone.you don't see that in NY or CA. Crackers never built on a slab. This is a swamp, old homes don't sit on the ground. But with every boom is a crash. See Miami 1920s and look at today.
Sunnydog because this is your reality it doesnt have to be anyone elses nor should anyone be swayed by it. You should have bought 6 years ago - if you did you wouldnt be singing the same song you'd be OWNING what you now rent.
Buying what I now rent 6 years ago with what I made and had saved up 6 years ago was impossible. Buying much of anything was out of reach. I have this funny thing about buying what I can afford. The fact that back in '76 you stretched and it worked also shouldn't sway anyone else. I've come across plenty of 20-somethings that did as you did and it's been financially disasterous for them, all they got now is equity that they can't use to downsize because their taxes will be reassessed and they'll be paying more to live in a "cheaper" place. Yes thew own (techinically, the bank owns it) but many of them got less in liquid net worth then I got in my checking account. Once again, renting in my area at the current time is much cheaper than buying and I've saved up a nice amount of money by renting. Unless you're fool enough to think that the appreciation rates that hit Florida in the past 5 years is the norm and will continue, there will be a leveling off in prices to where homeownership costs more closely follow rental costs. You're telling people to buy now irregardless of their financial status or market conditions, and while that's your opinion I find it dangerous and misguided.
Thanks for the note on Mr. Lereah I didn’t hear that – then again I haven’t been interested in anything he says since I found out he was investing in So Fla real estate. He can’t be impartial on his views of the market while holding a position in the same market.
Cash is King but any amount of it and in any currency can be printed at will. Land can’t!!!
What’s more valuable?
My answer to that question is:
1976 Long Island NY - I purchased my first home after leaving my parents home, getting married and renting for 6 months. I was in my early 20’s and quickly realized that I was throwing money out the window by renting. I purchased my first home for 48,500 - 20% down 8.5% 30 fixed. It was difficult but the rest was history:
1981 sold 1st house for 79,900 purchased next home (again LI NY) for 140k
1992 sold that home for 389,000 during a downward regional correction (the home was valued as high as 475K+ 2 years before)
1992 bought my next home again LI NY in the same downward correcting market for 179,000 (downsized) and pocketed some cash for other investments.
2001 sold that home for 379,000 and purchased a condo in FLA for 209,000
2002 sold Fla condo for 266,500
2002 Fla bought new house for 256,200
2003 sold that house for 313,000
2003 bought waterfront home for 440,000. This is my current residence and the community is SELLING for 700k at the low end to 3.2 million on the high end.
My moves in housing have enabled me to send 2 kids to college, live a very nice lifestyle in some very nice communities and now enjoy Fla waterfront and it all started in 1976 busting my butt to afford a small (starter) house that at the time everybody was telling me was above my means and that I should rent a while longer.
I’LL TAKE REAL ESTATE ANY DAY
So you've been here since 2001, right when the boom began. Ever look at Florida's history of price appreciation? You DO know it's not always like this here, right? Past gains do not assure future performance.
All markets are cyclical, but God made Florida as He did Montana or Mississippi, or Kenya. Common sense would suggest which of those markets may be perceived to be more desirable in the longer run, but there are those who like the Mississippi River, cotton fields and the Delta.
There's something for everyone. I just hate shoveling snow just to 'experience' the seasons ! I can fly there and see that ! someplace nice like Park City !
Buying what I now rent 6 years ago with what I made and had saved up 6 years ago was impossible. You're telling people to buy now irregardless of their financial status or market conditions, and while that's your opinion I find it dangerous and misguided.
I certainly would not intentionally misguide anyone. My 1976 purchase was in a small starter home at the top of my affordably level. It wasn’t in a great area but it was a start. You rent in a great location but appreciation will likely keep you from ever owning there.
My feeling is that the easiest way for the average person to build wealth is through owning real estate. If that means forgoing a nice rental on the beach and some elbow grease in a dump of a starter home (re my 1976 purchase) then at least they are on the path to wealth and with some good fortune then maybe someday that waterfront dream.
You won’t get there on the sidelines and fact about Fla is that it has become a place of great desirability. It has just seen its first boom (as difined by the FDIC) and will likely see many more.
Renting is fine – it has its benefits- no ties no headaches no responsibilities. Also no rights no appreciation no tax benefit. It takes sacrifice to own (at least in the beginning for the average person) the old saying no pain no gain applies. All I’m saying is those who opt to take the path of least resistance and rent if in-fact they had even a remote possibly to own should not be crying its unaffordable today. The story was the same 30 years ago and will be the same 30 years from now
So you've been here since 2001, right when the boom began. Ever look at Florida's history of price appreciation? You DO know it's not always like this here, right? Past gains do not assure future performance.
Yes in fact I have… Florida had long been undervalued (thats why I moved here) and has had only one boom in the last 30 years (see FDIC report fdic.gov/bank/analytical/fyi/2005/050205fyi_table1.pdf)
Why? Because millions of people like me each year have made and are making a conscious decision to move in this direction not from only the US but from around the world. Look at the other threads. No disputing the migration patterns, even with the affordability issues here we still have net “in-migration”. Supply and demand will keep the current appreciation trend alive.
Unless of course the sun burns out or the oceans dry up or people from up north decide that more snow and higher heating bills are OK and the people in Europe can no longer get 1.5 to 5 mil euro for their small flat or 2200 sq ft house
Yes in fact I have… Florida had long been undervalued (thats why I moved here) and has had only one boom in the last 30 years (see FDIC report fdic.gov/bank/analytical/fyi/2005/050205fyi_table1.pdf)
Why? Because millions of people like me each year have made and are making a conscious decision to move in this direction not from only the US but from around the world. Look at the other threads. No disputing the migration patterns, even with the affordability issues here we still have net “in-migration”. Supply and demand will keep the current appreciation trend alive.
Unless of course the sun burns out or the oceans dry up or people from up north decide that more snow and higher heating bills are OK and the people in Europe can no longer get 1.5 to 5 mil euro for their small flat or 2200 sq ft house
I don't Know about that. Big land deals tell the story. Supply & demand, running out of land, be priced out of the market, rates will go up, need to buy now, Its sounds like desperation.I dont think the migration works without money. remember the price of a home is alot for 3/4 of the US. well I got to go and stand in line for a playstation-3 housing is soooo last year..
Last edited by Floridamex; 11-16-2006 at 01:52 PM..
I don't Know about that. Big land deals tell the story. Supply & demand, running out of land, be priced out of the market, rates will go up, need to buy now, Its sounds like desperation.I dont think the migration works without money. remember the price of a home is alot for 3/4 of the US. well I got to go and stand in line for a playstation-3 housing is soooo last year..
Big land deal do tell some of the story they points to future growth but they are not the be all barometer of the market to come. Builders and developers acquire land many years in advance. Their purchases are highly speculative in regard to predicting the outcome of what will happen in the future to say 10,000 acres of land in the middle of nowhere today. The big players have 5-10 years of land already bought and smaller players in hopes of competing… easily get whipsawed when a market turns. I’ve heard plenty of stories of land being purchased at $60-$70K+ a blank (building lot) by smaller players in anticipation of higher home prices only to have to sell at $35K. This is the new construction side of the business and its getting tons of media attention because of its impact on publicly traded companies. These large companies will align their inventory with demand and will be back to bizz as usual
The other side of the story is "existing homes" in mostly or fully built out areas. Look at the prime areas in any part of the country. NYC is a great example – high desirability, no new land, high demand. Cali same way and now Fla is experiencing the same. Plenty of counties on the east and west coast of FLA are out of land especially near the water (within 10 miles) Are you saying that because a few players got burnt on land deals (central state or swamp) that these markets will implode?
Sure some land deals turned out to be hot potatoes but that’s not nearly the entire story.
I certainly would not intentionally misguide anyone. My 1976 purchase was in a small starter home at the top of my affordably level. It wasn’t in a great area but it was a start. You rent in a great location but appreciation will likely keep you from ever owning there.
My feeling is that the easiest way for the average person to build wealth is through owning real estate. If that means forgoing a nice rental on the beach and some elbow grease in a dump of a starter home (re my 1976 purchase) then at least they are on the path to wealth and with some good fortune then maybe someday that waterfront dream.
You won’t get there on the sidelines and fact about Fla is that it has become a place of great desirability. It has just seen its first boom (as difined by the FDIC) and will likely see many more.
Renting is fine – it has its benefits- no ties no headaches no responsibilities. Also no rights no appreciation no tax benefit. It takes sacrifice to own (at least in the beginning for the average person) the old saying no pain no gain applies. All I’m saying is those who opt to take the path of least resistance and rent if in-fact they had even a remote possibly to own should not be crying its unaffordable today. The story was the same 30 years ago and will be the same 30 years from now
I have to disagree and at the same time agree as strange as it sounds. But we are entering into a period of uncharted waters. Real estate is a good investment at times, but its very simple, buy low and sell high. You never assume you have the best product because time will always prove your wrong. Cash is still the best choice at this point in the game. You have to understand you never own land. Example, the Caloosa indians owned all of south Florida( or thought they did ) and then of course there's imminent domain! Just don't pay your taxes one year and see what happens. Today the debt in housing and land purchases far exceed the stocks bought on margin just before the great depression. This is global. Don't take this as a gloom and doom tactic, accept it as fact. Waterfront property is not that great. I can open my doors and look at the water every day. Theres nothing quite like the smell of red tide in the summer. So don't criticize those on the sidelines waiting for the market to correct. It's not like stocks, housing takes time to rise and fall outside the frenzy of a bubble. But I do commend you on your optimism. However smart money always utilizes caution. Thinking out of the box is the name of the game, but sometimes you realize there is no box. This is a website you should look at its History.http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/lessons/...m/ld_boom1.htm
Last edited by firemed; 11-16-2006 at 03:05 PM..
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I have to disagree and at the same time agree as strange as it sounds. But we are entering into a period of uncharted waters. Real estate is a good investment at times, but its very simple, buy low and sell high. You never assume you have the best product because time will always prove your wrong. Cash is still the best choice at this point in the game. You have to understand you never own land. Example, the Caloosa indians owned all of south Florida( or thought they did ) and then of course there's imminent domain! Just don't pay your taxes one year and see what happens. Today the debt in housing and land purchases far exceed the stocks bought on margin just before the great depression. This is global. Don't take this as a gloom and doom tactic, accept it as fact. Waterfront property is not that great. I can open my doors and look at the water every day. Theres nothing quite like the smell of red tide in the summer. So don't criticize those on the sidelines waiting for the market to correct. It's not like stocks, housing takes time to rise and fall outside the frenzy of a bubble. But I do commend you on your optimism. However smart money always utilizes caution. Thinking out of the box is the name of the game, but sometimes you realize there is no box. This is a website you should look at its History.
