[Muggy]

Originally Posted by elfyum

Everything you put in comes back to YOU!!!

Apparently you have a 0% interest loan. Do you understand compounding interest? Do you understand that you are "renting" from a bank until you pay them back?

I'm not arguing that ownership can't be a good thing. I'm arguing that now is the worst time to buy due to market conditions, which are an amalgam of rent rates, interest rates, tax rates, insurance rates, prices and the overall economy.

I am not invested in the property that I rent. My landlord wanted to raise rent because his taxes went up. Whoops! You can't get renters to "leverage" anything. That's cash every month. His bad investment is not my problem. So what did I do? I moved on to a better deal. Presumably my new landlord did not make the mistakes my current landlord did. The bubble isn't just going to shake out investors, it's going to shake out idiot landlords as well. There is tons of play in the rental market.

My rent is 16.5% of my income. What % of your income is your PITI? The place I am almost done renting and the place I will be renting cost at least 2x rent to own. So I pocket the other half and don't worry about getting a letter from Citizens.

My current rent situation proves you wrong, and my next rent situation proves you wrong. If you can't even see where renting is better than owning *in some* circumstances then I don't know what to say.

[Need_affordable_home]

Originally Posted by Muggy

My current rent situation proves you wrong, and my next rent situation proves you wrong. If you can't even see where renting is better than owning *in some* circumstances then I don't know what to say.

Even I can see that rent is a better deal in your situation. Are you investing the money you saved by renting? That invested money can go up 10-15% a year in mutual funds. Houses are dropping in value(but will rebound once they bottom out) Will you become a buyer once the market bottoms out? Do you plan to rent for life as long as you find cheap rent?

[Muggy]

Originally Posted by Need_affordable_home

Are you investing the money you saved by renting?

Yes, as well as building a good cash reserve.

Originally Posted by Need_affordable_home

Will you become a buyer once the market bottoms out? Do you plan to rent for life as long as you find cheap rent?

Good question. I know this isn't the answer you want, but I have no idea. The concept of renting does not bother me. I have too many concerns about buying in Florida right now to sort out a meaningful answer. If I am here in 3 years and plan to be for another 5 years after that I will buy. Keep in mind I can afford what I *need* right now with a conventional loan. There is no way I'll take the risk with the current insurance/tax crisis. I'd also like to see the mortgage fraud stuff shake out as well. That'll be another ding for the market on the way down.

[Bones]

Shores9, I see that you are a realtor. It appears from some of your comments that there is not a problem with houses in Pinellas county. Would you share some info with the forum as to what "IS" selling in the bay area - price,size,location,etc.

Thanks,
Bones

[Need_affordable_home]

Originally Posted by Muggy

Yes, as well as building a good cash reserve.



Good question. I know this isn't the answer you want, but I have no idea. The concept of renting does not bother me. I have too many concerns about buying in Florida right now to sort out a meaningful answer. If I am here in 3 years and plan to be for another 5 years after that I will buy. Keep in mind I can afford what I *need* right now with a conventional loan. There is no way I'll take the risk with the current insurance/tax crisis. I'd also like to see the mortgage fraud stuff shake out as well. That'll be another ding for the market on the way down.

Gave you + reputation! Would be honored to get some. Very good post! You are doing the right thing "bubble sitting" this will help lower prices which will benefit everyone but investors(sorry!) The less buyers, the less demand, the lower prices are going to have to be, its law of supply and demand. I have no reason to be in Florida and I know its apples to oranges but me buying a house elsewhere is cheaper than renting in Florida. Plus I think rent will increase, it already is. Rent is low now because of investors mistakes and they rent what they cant sell(rather than leave it empty). This will slowly change. You are right about the hurricane insurance crisis. I will move out of Florida but could move back when/if house prices get sorted out.

[Jammie]

Buying a home can definitely be a good investment if you can get it for the right price and you have a VERY sizeable down payment for it. I just figured how much the interest would be on a home that carried a 300,000 mortgage. 6% for 30 years would cost 270,000 in interest alone. If you consider the fact that interest rates and taxes are out of this world, you could definitely end up losing money in the end. And as always, there's a lot of money that has to be put into home improvements and just general upkeep. We own our home now, but when relocation time comes we'd definitely consider renting an apartment. It'd be nice to know what the house someone will be paying a total of 570,000 for will end up being 30 years down the road. It will be considered an older home by then and even with inflation may not be worth near the amount that was invested with the principal and interest.

It seems a lot of it has to do with where you're at in life financially and age wise, too. It just seems easier for us to think about paying out 8000 a year for renting a smaller apartment and having someone else take care of it. Taxes and insurance would definitely be out of our reach in Fla.

[elfyum]

Hey Muggy - no need to be so smuggy! Sheesh!
I am not a moron! I'm not saying you are, you're just one of "those".
My dad has rented in Manhattan for at LEAST the past 35 years!
I personally think he's nuts! But he always wants that "option" of moving...
For someone like that who can afford it, well that's that.
Anyway, back to my not being a moron - there are 2 of us paying.
And what we are paying (about 1550 a month with all ins & taxes) is the same we'd be paying to rent a 3/2 house! If you don't mind picking up & moving everytime your rent goes up, and you live alone & don't mind living in a small place, then that's all well & good. And OBVIOUSLY I know about the interest!!! It's called, we're paying extra & are cutting 7-10 years off the mortgage! So yes we are still paying interest, but MUCH less! And no we're NOT doing it through the bank's sneaky pay-every-two-weeks & pay an extra fee deal!!! We just send the $ when we have it. And when we sell, we will get AT LEAST EVERY PENNY we put in INCLUDING INTEREST back. And most certainly plenty more! But even if we only get the EXACT amount we put in, we've been living free the whole time! Minus taxes & insurance of course.
But hey - that comes with owning a home! It's a JOY to own your own place!!!!!!!
I guess some people don't care about that. Also, um, YOU'RE STUCK IN AN APT!!!!!
WITH NEIGHBORS!!!!!! Great to have someone stomping around on your head isn't it?
Well maybe you're one of the one-in-a-million who has quiet neighbors.
Also, the money you're making in investments cancells out the $ you're GIVING AWAY in rent!!!!!!!! I realize some people don't get this, & some people don't care.
All I can say is, we have a house, you don't.

Oh - NAF - HI! Thanks for the kind words! I'm still on here & post when something strikes me, but alot of stuff people say just pisses me off so I stay away a bit more. But I'm still here!

Oh, & Jammie - a 300k MORTGAGE???!!! Good GOD!!!!!!!!!!!
That would be a 375k$ house!!!!!!!! Anyone who could afford that could live down here no prob!!!

[Muggy]

Elfyum, I never called you a moron.

Originally Posted by elfyum

Also, um, YOU'RE STUCK IN AN APT!!!!!
WITH NEIGHBORS!!!!!!

I live in a house right now. I will be moving into a townhouse. The worst neighbor I have ever had was when I owned.

Imagine buying your "dream home" next to some crazy person. One of my friends did this and he can't wait for the guy to die. Another friend of mine bought a *WATERFRONT* property next to a guy who'd threaten to shoot the neighbors dog every time it walked on his lawn (even if leashed). Let me be a little more specific: by threaten I mean he would walk out and point a pistol at the dog and start counting down from 10. The Police said he was within his rights. We're talking about a golden retriever.

Originally Posted by elfyum

If you don't mind picking up & moving everytime your rent goes up, and you live alone & don't mind living in a small place, then that's all well & good.

I don't mind picking up and moving. I find it rejuvenating to explore new areas. Not all rentals are small either.

Originally Posted by elfyum

the money you're making in investments cancels out the $ you're GIVING AWAY in rent!!!!!!!!

First off, I am not giving away my money. I am paying for a service. This service includes lawn care, appliance maint./ replacement and removal, insurance and taxes. It also includes a new roof, termite protection, hurricane protection, and flood protection. It means that Citizens Insurance is something that is completely removed from my life.

In this thread you said you paid $950 for mort. but $1550 for PITI. That means you're "throwing away" $600/mo (and I'm not even factoring in interest on the $950). In my current rental situation I pay $650/mo. for all of those services listed above. Believe me when I tell you that I am making up the $50 difference. Also, you said "we're both paying" which I presume to mean you and your husband. By renting, my wife and I are able to accomodate any life change scenario (pregnancy, job loss) without any burden. Owning at the current market levels would remove this advantage.

Originally Posted by elfyum

All I can say is, we have a house, you don't.

I don't understand what this statement accomplishes. Do you not understand that I could own a home if I wanted to? Do you not understand that I have owned a home before?

I forgot to clarify my earlier statement: 16.5% is a net figure. My rent is actually 9.75% of my gross income. I am still curious to know what % of your income goes towards "owning."

[firemed]

Why not rent ? Do the Math the average rent for a two-bedroom, two-bath house in the Fort Myers area is $940, down from an all-time high of $1,041 less than a year ago.”

“That comes as the supply of unsold houses has ballooned to more than 12,000 in Lee County. The median price has dropped 18.9 percent from the all-time high of $322,300 in December 2005 to $261,400 in September.”

“‘For Rent’ signs are plentiful in neighborhoods in Cape Coral, Gateway and Lehigh Acres, where they were rare six months ago, and this is just the start, investor fear is just now setting in. The price will drop more as the tax bills roll in.

[Bones]

Originally Posted by firemed

Why not rent ? Do the Math the average rent for a two-bedroom, two-bath house in the Fort Myers area is $940, down from an all-time high of $1,041 less than a year ago.”

“That comes as the supply of unsold houses has ballooned to more than 12,000 in Lee County. The median price has dropped 18.9 percent from the all-time high of $322,300 in December 2005 to $261,400 in September.”

“‘For Rent’ signs are plentiful in neighborhoods in Cape Coral, Gateway and Lehigh Acres, where they were rare six months ago, and this is just the start, investor fear is just now setting in. The price will drop more as the tax bills roll in.

Firemed

I just got my new tax bill for Clearwater. They went "DOWN"
Now what do I do with the $27 ????

Guess put it towards the insurance increase of 40%