03-25-2008, 03:37 PM
Location: Keller, TX
295 posts, read
948,939 times
Reputation: 57
Ok so I just moved to the Fort Worth Area (Keller, to be more specific). My house is 3,500 sqft, no radiant barrier and lacks enough vents on the roof (according to my past experience). I come from the midwest so summer months and their associated cooling costs aren't that much of a concern. But I hear it gets pretty hot down here and I'll see it when the first power bill for those months arrives
. I'm trying to be proactive and do one of two things:
1. Install a radiant barrier. Not decided yet if I should go with the spray-on vs. foil. I think the going price for a home the size of mine is about $2k.
2. Have a roofer install solar-powered roof vents.
For all of you who have lived here longer than me, what do you recommend? obviously, I will do the other little improvements like installing ceiling fans, leave the AC thermostat at 80 and maybe 78 during the night, etc.
What works, what doesn't according to YOU?
thanks!
03-25-2008, 04:02 PM
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,674 posts, read
10,601,272 times
Reputation: 5582
I vote for the foil solar shield. I have no experience with the sprayon, but have heard unsubstantiated negatives about that type of barrier.
I built my house using the barrier laminated OSB decking material and I can vouch for a very significant temp difference in my attic. I live near Austin and the summer after I finished construction I measured a 130 degree attic on a 99 degree day and I have a shed with the same roof style without a radiant barrier that measured 165 degrees at that time.
Even on days over 105 outside was only uncomfortable in the attic as opposed to unbearable as I used to experience in prior homes.
03-25-2008, 05:00 PM
3 posts, read
45,879 times
Reputation: 14
The spray-on does not work, but the foil is very effective. Roof ventilation is very essential, along with soffitt ventilation air can flow properly through your attic.
03-25-2008, 10:49 PM
Location: Fort Worth, TX
1,379 posts, read
6,424,364 times
Reputation: 356
Yep...I would definately do it.
Okay...so case in point, we have radiant barrier, on ALL electric (3500 sq ft) and our bill in December was 310.00 and my neighbor a few blocks away who doesn't have it (she does keep her house a little warmer 78 vs my 72) and her bill for that same month was 920.00 or so. So it can be a BIG difference!!
I know for me the ROI would pay for itself in a matter of months, not years.
03-26-2008, 12:19 AM
13,186 posts, read
14,972,499 times
Reputation: 4555
Whoa, hold on a second. If you suspect inadequate air flow. Do that first. Much cheaper and it's an essential part of the whole roof design to have proper airflow. I don't know about solar power...plenty of wind here to run the turbines that cost less. I had two turbines installed in a 1965 built duplex I rent out and it did wonders for the climate control.
Once that is resolved, and your bill is still out of line, or you will live there long term, then look at the radiant barrier...most new homes do not have them. They get by with proper insulation and air flow.
First and foremost have the roof properly ventilated.
Last edited by padcrasher; 03-26-2008 at 12:33 AM ..
03-26-2008, 06:52 AM
37,315 posts, read
59,832,630 times
Reputation: 25341
radiant barrier is great -- should be required for code in all new construction to help with utility costs--
proper venting is helpful but it will not make the difference that radiant barrier use will...
spray-on barrier is not that great no matter what hype you get--adding the foil PROPERLY does help but it is not as good as using the roofing radiant plywood--and because the % of benefit is less, there is longer pay-out time...
depending on the attic construction/framing--it can be very difficult to add the foil sheets correctly--it might be more effective cost-wise to just add more R-factor in insulation---most construction has only mininal code/spec insulation which usually is not enough to make appreciable difference in utility costs...
remember YOUR home's windows, its orientation to the sun and design have big influence on its HVAC useage--most homes in TX are not built with eaves that really shade windows effectively and most subdivision design does not take sun's orientation into account--just how many lots can I carve out of the land I bought...
check out how well-sealed any ceiling light fixtures, windows, exterior doors, and wall outlets are--air infiltration from those areas creates persistant problem that should be dealt with whether is it heating or cooling season...
and remember regarding electric bills that you have other factors that influence your overall costs--major appliances, types of computers/tvs/light bulbs--they all add to KWH costs to run household--garage door opener is VERY expensive to run--so having it go up and down 4-5-6 times a day which is normal in most homes adds to KWH costs
in some homes the HVAC is only 1/3-1/2 of electric useage--are you doing 3-4 loads of clothes a day--leaving lights on during the day or in empty rooms--leaving computers turned on when not in use or turning it off at powerstrip?
what some (better) builders are doing now is to foam the floor of the attic to put heavy R factor insulation directly over the living space--1.5 to 2in of foam is like R-36 or more I think--and using the radiant backed sheathing for sides of homes--not just roofing...THAT makes big difference when there is effective seam sealing as well...
you also need to make sure that your HVAC ducting is tight and insulated--might even be worth seeing about foaming the tubes--have seen that done--to keep the air cool/hot vs attic temps...some people think that is not effective long term because the foam can dry out and crack--they should have mastic sealing instead of duct tape and foil backed batting for insulation at the least--most newer homes have the foil-backed insulation but not the mastic sealant which is more expensive and time consuming to install correctly---
it also makes sense to have different sized tubing depending on the HVAC run and the room sizes--
03-26-2008, 06:56 AM
Location: A little suburb of Houston
3,702 posts, read
18,208,805 times
Reputation: 2092
Yep! I vote for proper ventilation and insulation first. Ventilation can be done in a number of ways depending on the design of your home. There are some good websites concerning this. My house was improperly ventilated, no soffits worth mentioning. I got this corrected and paired up with a ridge vent (passive system) and saw a huge drop in the electric bill. For some designs, a turbine or gable might be more appropriate. The best type of radiant barrier is the roof decking like stated above. I plan to add this when I require a new roof not too long for now.
03-26-2008, 10:44 AM
Location: Keller, TX
295 posts, read
948,939 times
Reputation: 57
Thanks everyone for your responses. I had no idea of the lack of vents until the inspector pointed it out to me. When I mentioned this to the superintendent at pre-closing walkthrough what do you think he said? "we build according to Texas code and you have enough vents ACCORDING to Texas code"... nice. Anyway, it doesn't take a scientist to know that if you have a roof shared by the garage, the kitchen and the breakfast area you can't possibly NOT have any vents on it.
A ridge vent would be awesome but I'm pretty sure these are expensive to install once your home is already built, right?
Thanks again!
03-26-2008, 11:33 AM
13,186 posts, read
14,972,499 times
Reputation: 4555
"proper venting is helpful but it will not make the difference that radiant barrier use will..."
You've got to be kidding! Go put up your best radiant barrier and block your turbine and soffets up so no airflow takes place in 100 degre weather. You'd be able to cook a pot roast up there. Likely tempatures in excess of 200 degrees.
Do not listen to this guy. The roofing system basics must function properly before you do add ons like radiant barriers.
03-26-2008, 12:00 PM
Location: Austin, TX
15,268 posts, read
35,619,033 times
Reputation: 8614
Quote:
"we build according to Texas code and you have enough vents ACCORDING to Texas code"
Cities may have more restrictive codes than the state. Make sure that the correct codes are met, although your inspector should know this.
I did a quick check for Austin, and came up with the following codes:
Quote:
2006 International Energy Conservation Code
2003 International Building Code - Commercial Construction
2006 International Residential Code - Residential Building and Mechanical Construction
2003 Uniform Plumbing Code - Residential and Commercial Construction
2003 Uniform Mechanical Code - Commercial
2005 National Electrical Code - All electrical installations
The Int'l Energy Cons. Code had some requirements for attic efficiency, although I did not try to dig through them all.
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People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)