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Old 02-14-2011, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
8,293 posts, read 13,066,067 times
Reputation: 8612

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quote:"Holly, obviously you are white and angry and, thus, fired off a response and did not fully understand the point I was making. I never said it was okay. However, most posts on this thread act as though these Afrikans who participated in the slave trade were just trading people for the heck of it. It was wrong; dead wrong. But, these people had no ties to the people in which they were selling. Contrary to white beliefs, we are not all brothers and sister and cousins; we actually, on occasion, do things like participate in slavery. Similar to what the Irish suffered at the hands of their Caucasian brethren.

POINT BEING: People who make comments that blacks were selling others blacks into slavery act as though they were selling their bretren or own people into slavery with the inference that blacks should be mad at ourselves for the viciousness of slavery. When, in fact, just as there are many white denominations, there are also many black denominations as well. Blacks understand this, and we hold those parties liable as well; but with all of your "dry snitching" on who else helped to partake in the enslavement of blacks, it still does not minimize the massive role of Europeans as instigator, motivator, orchestrator and financier of said movement.

It's so typical that of the 4 comments I posted, and of the 3 pages of insensitive and non-factual comments posted by others, what you tactically chose to invalidate. It's typical...but, unfortunately, not surprising."


Not only are you making ad hominem remarks "white and angry", "typical", etc.- but you are making baseless assumptions. I said you were splitting hairs and I stand by my comment.

Of course no one was trading people "for the heck of it". It was part of their culture and also for monetary gain. You also obviously chose to ignore that some of the biggest slave traders were Arabs- choosing instead to focus on "Europeans".
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 19,611,225 times
Reputation: 32487
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsmith365 View Post
It's so typical that of the 4 comments I posted, and of the 3 pages of insensitive and non-factual comments posted by others, what you tactically chose to invalidate. It's typical...but, unfortunately, not surprising.
You seem to be implying that all of the comments other than yours in this thread are "insensitive and non-factual". At the very least that is one way to interpret your remarks, as your comment above was on page four, leaving about three pages of comments which were not yours. If that is what you meant, I find it both arrogant and unjustified, and I would ask you to re-read all of the comments made by others to double check. Or if that is not what you meant, perhaps you will say so.
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,812 posts, read 17,791,786 times
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Just an update. Colbert B. (C.B. Ivy) was born in Tennessee. In 1850 they lived in Franklin county, Arkansas, where had a 12-year-old adopted daughter named Gertrude Adrain (she was born in Alabama). In 1860 Gertrude is still in Arkansas. I haven't found the 1860 census for C.B., but according to his will he was back in Franklin, Tennessee by then. He died in 1867.

The 1850 census lists C.B. as having three slaves, though they are not named. His will mentions three slaves by name, but one of the slaves (Sivy) has children. I'm assuming his slaves in TN were the same ones that he had in ARK, but I can't say for sure.
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Old 02-14-2011, 06:11 PM
 
4,435 posts, read 8,586,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
You must be very old considering slavery ended here over 145 years ago. Perhaps this was outside the U.S.? If not, you probably need to add a couple more greats on the front.
I'm in my 40's, and my great-great grandfather was in his mid-twenties when he served in the Civil War. DH is in his 50's, and his great-grandfather was in the war. So what the poster said could be true.
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Old 02-14-2011, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Some T-1 Line
520 posts, read 936,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree View Post
Not only are you making ad hominem remarks "white and angry", "typical", etc.- but you are making baseless assumptions. I said you were splitting hairs and I stand by my comment.

Of course no one was trading people "for the heck of it". It was part of their culture and also for monetary gain. You also obviously chose to ignore that some of the biggest slave traders were Arabs- choosing instead to focus on "Europeans".
Final comment addressed to you, although I know you will have to have the last word, no one in here mentioned anything about the Arab involvement in the slave trade; therefore, it was not addressed. If someone did, then I missed it. Similarly, no one in here mentioned the Jewish involvement in the slave trade either. And, just like the Arab involvement, I must have missed it as well.

But, again, you are taking this directly to heart. Keep dry snitching. It, still, does not deflect from the European involvement. Like someone else said, you should not feel bad about what happened nor get stressed out over something that you did not do.

As a suggestion, you should not waste your time "debating" with me; there are plenty of lemurs in this thread who are willing to jump off of the "it's not the White man's fault" cliff with you. I think you are taking this way too personally.

Don't look forward to any more responses from me. So, go ahead and get the last word in.
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Old 02-14-2011, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Some T-1 Line
520 posts, read 936,192 times
Reputation: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
You seem to be implying that all of the comments other than yours in this thread are "insensitive and non-factual". At the very least that is one way to interpret your remarks, as your comment above was on page four, leaving about three pages of comments which were not yours. If that is what you meant, I find it both arrogant and unjustified, and I would ask you to re-read all of the comments made by others to double check. Or if that is not what you meant, perhaps you will say so.
To satisfy your request, not all of the comments made prior to mine were insensitive and non-factual. There were quite a few, some I addressed and some that I did not. But, you are right, not all of the comments were non-factual or insensitive. In fact, I have added concurrence to some comments that I totally agreed with. Similarly, I expounded on other posts that I felt needed more clarification or correction.

Again, I find it unusually out of ALL of the remarks made within this thread, some factual and some erroneous, that someone would want a retraction on a blanket statement generalization and not, also, follow-up or challenge the statements made from other posters in regards to their facts or opinions on slavery. Truly amazing.
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,660 posts, read 36,665,706 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989 View Post

Do any of you have ancestors (slaves or slave owners) in your genealogy?
Yes, both.

Quote:
Did it surprise you? Shock you? Did it make you feel anything?
It neither surprised nor shocked me, because I had always assumed that was that case. What surprised and shocked me was that I had a lot of Europeans in my ancestry who were not slaveowners.


Quote:
For me, it's an interesting tidbit. I'm not so much ashamed because I didn't do it, but it does make me want to wonder about that time and what it was like, especially for slaves but also for regular people.
Is there something irregular or different about people who were enslaved?


Quote:
I'm sure many more people during that day, even those who owned or whose relatives owned slaves, struggled with it. Although he lived almost a century before, Thomas Jefferson himself struggled with it.

It's really interesting to read up on. I'm certainly glad I live now and not then.
Yeah, me too.


Quote:
Thoughts?
Reminds me of a time I met a woman who happened to be from the same place my grandfather came from. She said, "Wow! Maybe my grandfather owned your grandfather!"

She was really surprised when I declined to share her enthusiasm.
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,812 posts, read 17,791,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post

Is there something irregular or different about people who were enslaved?

Reminds me of a time I met a woman who happened to be from the same place my grandfather came from. She said, "Wow! Maybe my grandfather owned your grandfather!"

She was really surprised when I declined to share her enthusiasm.
Sorry. I used a poor choice of words there. What I meant is that I sometimes wonder what life was like back then, both for slaves and for free people. I realize now how that sounded and I didn't mean it that way.

I apologize.

I can see how that woman said completely the wrong thing. I didn't start this thread to say that I approve of slavery or act superior to anyone else. Obviously I don't feel that slavery was right. However, it is a part of my history and I wanted to see if anybody else had found slavery in their family tree and how they felt about it.

Obviously slavery is a topic that is not easy to talk about, and I apologize for my choice of words before. I wasn't intentionally implying anything. Slavery is a big part of this country's history and in many Americans' family trees, so I did want to ask about it. I wasn't purposefully being offensive. If it came across that way I apologize.
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,660 posts, read 36,665,706 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989 View Post
Sorry. I used a poor choice of words there. What I meant is that I sometimes wonder what life was like back then, both for slaves and for free people. I realize now how that sounded and I didn't mean it that way.

I apologize.

I can see how that woman said completely the wrong thing. I didn't start this thread to say that I approve of slavery or act superior to anyone else. Obviously I don't feel that slavery was right. However, it is a part of my history and I wanted to see if anybody else had found slavery in their family tree and how they felt about it.

Obviously slavery is a topic that is not easy to talk about, and I apologize for my choice of words before. I wasn't intentionally implying anything. Slavery is a big part of this country's history and in many Americans' family trees, so I did want to ask about it. I wasn't purposefully being offensive. If it came across that way I apologize.
Thanks for the clarification and apology.
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 19,611,225 times
Reputation: 32487
Default Not amazing at all, actually

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsmith365 View Post
To satisfy your request, not all of the comments made prior to mine were insensitive and non-factual. There were quite a few, some I addressed and some that I did not. But, you are right, not all of the comments were non-factual or insensitive. In fact, I have added concurrence to some comments that I totally agreed with. Similarly, I expounded on other posts that I felt needed more clarification or correction.

Again, I find it unusually out of ALL of the remarks made within this thread, some factual and some erroneous, that someone would want a retraction on a blanket statement generalization and not, also, follow-up or challenge the statements made from other posters in regards to their facts or opinions on slavery. Truly amazing.
Not amazing at all, if you stop to think about it. Since my comment was one of the ones which preceeded your "blanket statement generalization", as you so aptly term it yourself, I was curious to know if it was necessarily covered by your comment. I do appreciate the answer, from which I can see that you were not necessarily describing my comment as insensitive and non-factual. It is not my role to be some kind of a super-overlord here, challenging every opinion that might be questionable. Methinks thou dost protest too much.
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