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Well, we can grow evergreen Southern Magnolia as well as Mimosa trees here in the extreme southern tip of Canada. We are a zone 6B, and have a -3C daily man for our coldest month, January. I guess I'm near the subtropical zone then too!
With your January temps averaging below 0c you are not Subtropical. I didn't say St Louis was either, I said they were in the southern part of Humid Continental.
Exactly, as somebody who grew up in St. Louis and now lives in Florida (and has lived in a couple other Southern locales) the idea that St. Louis has a subtropical climate is hilarious. St. Louis is not as cold as Great Lake cities, but it's definitely not what I would consider a warm weather climate at all. It gets cold as hell in St. Louis and can stay that way for months at a time. In fact, I think St. Louis is one of the few areas of the country that get's literally all four seasons. Hot and humid summers, beautiful falls, rainy springs, and very cold winters, where it does snow every year. A true continental climate.
Yes it is truly continental (as I said), but it is in the southern part of this climate zone. It can get very cold in St louis, but most other cities farther north in this climate zone are prone to even harsher winter's . Northern Minnesota is also in the same climate zone, and anyone who lives there will tell you that St Louis has it easy when it comes to winter weather. If you like it warm and humid all year, then St Louis would not fit the bill either.
Miami has a tropical, not subtropical classification as per Koeppen. However, I regard it as transitional.
St. Louis is classified as 'transitional' between subtropical and continental as per Koeppen. I haven't even looked at Cincinnati and Nashville but my guess is they're also transitional.
The true "subtropical" climates would be the gulf coast ones (Houston, New Orleans). I'd say Dallas and Atlanta are tad too cold to be classified as subtropical as you can expect snow there every winter.
The map below showcases the zone where the climax ecosystem is broadleaf evergreen forest. This is where you will find your classic humid subtropical climates in the US, wherein winter conditions are actually mild, and not just a warmer version of a continental climate.
Winter insect activity is also a good sell for this. If insects are active even through the dead of winter, then you have yourself a true subtropical climate. The Texas coast, for instance, definitely fits; I saw lots of wasps, ladybugs, bees, etc on flowers, and this was just after the recent freak snowfall.
You raise a good point. Something that shows native vegetation and animal life is going to be more accurate then the overly broad and outdated Koppen system.
Miami has a tropical, not subtropical classification as per Koeppen. However, I regard it as transitional.
St. Louis is classified as 'transitional' between subtropical and continental as per Koeppen. I haven't even looked at Cincinnati and Nashville but my guess is they're also transitional.
The true "subtropical" climates would be the gulf coast ones (Houston, New Orleans). I'd say Dallas and Atlanta are tad too cold to be classified as subtropical as you can expect snow there every winter.
Yes, I agree. Koppen may deem most of the eastern US as 'subtropical', but...no.
In my mind, the US subtropics cover the area that hugs the Gulf and south Atlantic coasts from southern NC to about Corpus Christi. Below Corpus I would deem too arid.
And yes, I would deem the southern tip of Florida tropical.
Well, we can grow evergreen Southern Magnolia as well as Mimosa trees here in the extreme southern tip of Canada. We are a zone 6B, and have a -3C daily man for our coldest month, January. I guess I'm near the subtropical zone then too!
If you have a hardier cultivar, then yes. But the classic variety of Southern Magnolia is rated no lower than USDA Zone 7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative
You raise a good point. Something that shows native vegetation and animal life is going to be more accurate then the overly broad and outdated Koppen system.
I was thinking of Plant hardiness zone maps.
Yep. Natural broadleaf evergreen trees are a good sell, because this is a class of trees with physiology least suited for cold climates: no leaf-drop like broadleaf deciduous trees, and no highly resistant leaves like conifers.
USDA hardiness zone maps are a good reference. I'd say 8B or zone 9 corresponds to the true subtropical zone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconographer
In my mind, the US subtropics cover the area that hugs the Gulf and south Atlantic coasts from southern NC to about Corpus Christi. Below Corpus I would deem too arid.
Yes, the Corpus area is around the Texas Coastal bend, where the coastline transitions towards having the Gulf entirely due East. At that point and going southwards, there is a sharp increase in aridity (since the bend is sharp). The climate still is hot and humid like the rest of the Gulf/Atlantic coastal south, just that the rainfall is dramatically less. This dryness continues down through Mexico until around Tampico, at which point you start seeing strong influence from the tropical summer rain belt.
Basically, any city along the Gulf and eastern coast areas that have palmettos. That's a sign of subtropical weather, at least to me. South Florida could pass for Tropical, but in reality its still subtropical, even Key West.
I don't care what places are officially listed as subtropical, if palmettos doesn't grow there (example: NYC), its not subtropical. End of story.
Cities like Shanghai, Wuhan, Tokyo, Birmingham, Nashville etc. doesn't have any palmettos however they are subtropical. Average subtropical climate are not defines by palmettos vegetation but by a sort of "temperate like" vegetation which are suitable with subtropical conditions just like in the cities I mentionned before.
Last edited by Hartfordd; 01-06-2018 at 04:02 PM..
Yes, but only anthropically, they will never grow there naturally, look the forest around theses cities, seen from a distance they could be confused with temperate vegetation.
Last edited by Hartfordd; 01-06-2018 at 05:08 PM..
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Subtropical
