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Well idk if I would consider North Carolina or TN the Upper South. Was moreso referring to Virginia or Kentucky.
But accents get more DRAWLS further South whereas I always thought a twang was a certain way of enunciating words. Drawl on the other hand seems to me is drawing out the vowels (hence drawl) as in giving them extra sounds. Like "cat" becomes "cayat" or something along those lines. Whereas a twang would be something like saying "p'tayda" for "potato" or "Balmer" for "Baltimore". I think Baltimoreans (White ones) sound twangy but they don't really have drawls thus don't sound "truly Southern". Now the Blacks there have more of a slight drawl in words like "do" where it sounds like "dieu". That's moreso what I meant by Upper South twang vs Deep South drawl. But I'm a Northerner so I don't really know what the exact meanings are, just showing you what I personally meant.
I see your point. I always looked at the twang/drawl as being sort of intermarried.
Yeah, for those saying Blacks in the Northeast in cities like Philly or NYC have no Southernisms, they haven't listened closely enough. BUT, NYC is a special case wherein a HUGE Black component there isn't Southern but West Indian.
Even in Chicago where OP is from, the Blaccent isn't fully Southern. They say their "o" sounds like Northerners, and many of the younger generation is rhotic or at least partially rhotic. Black Chicagoans will still say their vowels flat in words like "and" and "pop" and maintain glide deletion in words like "time" or "my". It's a combo accent that isn't fully Southern. Older Blacks in Chicago above 50 though sound super Southern, with strong glide deletion, non-rhoticity, and the "drawl" where every short vowel becomes a triphthong.
With time, the Chicago Blaccent has lost a lot of its Southern character. Those born after 2000 have fewer traces of it.
The difference is that black accent in Northeastern in cities like Philly and NYC sound less southern and have less southerisms (though there are some certainly there as I stated before) than Blacks in the midwest like Chicago, St louis and Detroit. Young or old, black Chicago accents and especially St louis accents sound VERY southern though.
Location: Mentally been many places but I'm PHILLY's own
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I'm African American & have lived in Philly my whole life, I have also traveled all around the country/world... In Philly we are nothing like the South. When I first went to Georgia it was as if they spoke another language... We are not influenced by the South at all, I'm not sure who u guys are talking too or how many black people u actually know personally but this whole convo sounds ridiculous... If u were talking to someone from the South & someone from Philly at the same time maybe u would see that their accents are vastly different... Every time I go down South they laugh at me saying "I talk so proper" .
I'm African American & have lived in Philly my whole life, I have also traveled all around the country/world... In Philly we are nothing like the South. When I first went to Georgia it was as if they spoke another language... We are not influenced by the South at all, I'm not sure who u guys are talking too or how many black people u actually know personally but this whole convo sounds ridiculous... If u were talking to someone from the South & someone from Philly at the same time maybe u would see that their accents are vastly different... Every time I go down South they laugh at me saying "I talk so proper" .
My gosh, exactly. I looked at the title of the thread and was so confused. I've had the opposite experience from you in terms of "proper speaking." Every time I visit New York, there's always at least one person who tells me I speak proper.
I'm Black and from Los Angeles, and we don't have Southern accents. OP, have you met a majority of the Blacks in this country to ask this question?
The difference is that black accent in Northeastern in cities like Philly and NYC sound less southern and have less southerisms (though there are some certainly there as I stated before) than Blacks in the midwest like Chicago, St louis and Detroit. Young or old, black Chicago accents and especially St louis accents sound VERY southern though.
I can't speak for St. Louis, but Detroit Blacks don't sound very Southern have you met any? I know CHICAGO Blacks can have it HEAVY
The difference is that black accent in Northeastern in cities like Philly and NYC sound less southern and have less southerisms (though there are some certainly there as I stated before) than Blacks in the midwest like Chicago, St louis and Detroit. Young or old, black Chicago accents and especially St louis accents sound VERY southern though.
NYC AAs tend to originate from the Carolinas, and VA. Those from the Midwest tend to come from MS, AL,GA,AR. Some might argue that the accents of these latter states are more stereotypically "southern", which will suggest that those of the Midwest will also be.
In addition blacks in the Midwest are almost 100% derived from the South. There has been a black population in the NE for generations, and in fact NY was once the 2nd largest slave importing port, behind Charleston. So even among AAs there is a pool of people who never had Southern connections.
And of course NYC and most other large cities in the NE have populations derived from black immigration, so even as their offspring acquire American accents, these would be less rooted in the South.
My gosh, exactly. I looked at the title of the thread and was so confused. I've had the opposite experience from you in terms of "proper speaking." Every time I visit New York, there's always at least one person who tells me I speak proper.
I'm Black and from Los Angeles, and we don't have Southern accents. OP, have you met a majority of the Blacks in this country to ask this question?
NYC Blacks don't have as many Southern roots so we can't expect them to sound Southern. Can't say the same for Philly. If you say "tahm" (time), "mah" (my), or "ahm" (I'm) and you claim to not have SOME Southernisms in your speech, you fail to realize that accents don't have to fall neatly in one category.
NYC Blacks don't have as many Southern roots so we can't expect them to sound Southern. .
The plurality of NYC blacks have origins in NC, SC, and VA. Their "Southern" is just not based on GA.MS, AL. and AR. Most second, and virtually all 3rd generation NYC blacks of immigrant background take on the dominant American accent, as do most immigrant offspring. In this case it will be the local NYC AA accent.
In fact many PRs have an AA influenced accent, which definitely marks them off, even from Italians, whose accent is NOT free of AA influences.
. If you say "tahm" (time), "mah" (my), or "ahm" (I'm) and you claim to not have SOME Southernisms in your speech, you fail to realize that accents don't have to fall neatly in one category.
I think people are looking at extreme Southern accents, and them exclaiming that because they don't sound like that, there are no Southern influences.
I also suspect that some reject the notion of Southern influences, as they see it as "country" and not what modern city dwellers should be linked to.
The reality is that the vast varieties of AA accents do have Southern influences. How much depends on origin of the Great Migration, generation and social class. Younger and more educated AAs have fewer influences. Also accents of the Deep South are more stereotypically Southern than those of the Southeast.
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