Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have run into lots of italians that look similar to the Italian Prime Minister luigi di maio. Most southern europeans look very latino. IMO they have better features than the nordic anglo germatic types.
Some are. I've seen Morrocans and Egyptians who are pretty feckin' white. But I've also seen North Africans who are certainly NOT white, but not black either. But North Africa is an ancient continental crossroad anyway, the genetics down there are rich and complicated. The concept of race in itself is pretty outdated. I can imagine that by the 2090s, the current 20th century/early 21st century concept of race will be seen as pretty primitive.
Personally, I've always grown up as a kid seeing race as nothing more than a physical descriptor. My 7 year old mind didn't even put genetics in perspective because I didn't understand that, but to me it was just what you looked like. Now I was naive enough to consider "Asians" a "white" because they have the same skin tone as white people haha. Which is also silly, because I didn't consider other features.
But in my teens I questioned the very meaning of "racial identity." Being white Hispanic, it always felt like some stupid tug of war. I'm white. No, I'm Hispanic? But thats not a race. And dark skinned Hispanics (mestizos and mulattos) are quick to point out my "whiteness." But then ignorant Americans will say I'm NOT white, "but you're Hispanic" even though before I told them I was, they just saw me as "white." Which is why I find the concept of race so stupid, and not in the sense that it doesn't exist, but the fact that its definitions are A. too convoluted B. inconsistent and C. often defined by both bias and ignorant.
So I'd say that anyone with predominantly "white features" and "white ancestry," is "white." In reality, race shouldn't be any more complicated than any other feature. Ethnicity is more concretely defined and less stringent. Notice how we also ignore biracial people in this country. Obama is 50/50 but he's 90% referred to as "black." In Cuba, he wouldn't be called black. Not white either.
Asians do NOT have the same skin tone as whites. Women in Asia often try to keep their skin pale as they can, butnid they didn't do that they would have a tan skin tone that overlaps with that of mestizo Hispanics. Asian men and Westernized Asian women don't do this, so they tend to be brown. Just look at Hideki Matsui for instance.
Just walk around your nearest Chinatown, the overwhelming majority of people will not have white skin.
I agree there is a lot of confusion over race and Hispanicness, but the overwhelming majority of Hispanics in the US are mestizo (or mulatto in some cases) so I can see where the confusion stems from.
I haven’t seen the movie, but I can believe it. I think Italian Americans are fully integrated in general American culture now, even though they do carry on some of their own traditions. I am Polish American, and we are the same way. Here in Chicagoland where we have the highest Polish population in the country (or other parts of the NE and Midwest where we have high numbers), many of us are as American as apple pie. Like Italians, we are predominantly Catholic and still carry on a lot of traditions. The difference being that on looks alone, a Polish person would almost never be mistaken for anything other than what Americans perceive as “white,” whereas a small portion of Italian Americans (just based on looks) could be mistaken for other ethnicities. That doesn’t change the fact that they are completely integrated and can still be “good ole boys” despite having Southern Itailan heritage.
Great post! I agree with everything you're saying. I do think most Italians would generally not be perceived as nonwhite based on looks, however there are exceptions like Alessia Cara. But looking at the cast of The Sopranos for instance, they all look white to me.
Asians do NOT have the same skin tone as whites. Women in Asia often try to keep their skin pale as they can, butnid they didn't do that they would have a tan skin tone that overlaps with that of mestizo Hispanics. Asian men and Westernized Asian women don't do this, so they tend to be brown. Just look at Hideki Matsui for instance.
East Asians don't get all the way to Nordic or Irish levels of pale, but their basic skin tone is similar to southern Europeans. The main difference is the type of skin lightening genes they evolved, unlike with Europeans, do not make them susceptible to sunburn or skin cancer, so they can stay outside and soak up the rays until they're the color of teak. But their untanned skin color isn't isn't any different from a Spaniard, Italian, or Greek.
East Asians don't get all the way to Nordic or Irish levels of pale, but their basic skin tone is similar to southern Europeans. The main difference is the type of skin lightening genes they evolved, unlike with Europeans, do not make them susceptible to sunburn or skin cancer, so they can stay outside and soak up the rays until they're the color of teak. But their untanned skin color isn't isn't any different from a Spaniard, Italian, or Greek.
East Asians don't get all the way to Nordic or Irish levels of pale, but their basic skin tone is similar to southern Europeans. The main difference is the type of skin lightening genes they evolved, unlike with Europeans, do not make them susceptible to sunburn or skin cancer, so they can stay outside and soak up the rays until they're the color of teak. But their untanned skin color isn't isn't any different from a Spaniard, Italian, or Greek.
Most Italians I know are no darker than Central Europeans. Meanwhile most Asians I know (even the ones who don't play sports or go to the beach a lot) are visibly darker than white people and don't have that pinkness to their skin like white people.
Asians do NOT have the same skin tone as whites. Women in Asia often try to keep their skin pale as they can, butnid they didn't do that they would have a tan skin tone that overlaps with that of mestizo Hispanics. Asian men and Westernized Asian women don't do this, so they tend to be brown. Just look at Hideki Matsui for instance.
Just walk around your nearest Chinatown, the overwhelming majority of people will not have white skin.
I agree there is a lot of confusion over race and Hispanicness, but the overwhelming majority of Hispanics in the US are mestizo (or mulatto in some cases) so I can see where the confusion stems from.
Most white people aren't that pale either, with the exception of mostly the Irish and Scottish. There's tons of white people with a natural broze skin tone, especially in sunny climates. Asian skin tones vary just as much as Europeans. Laotians are naturally tanner than Koreans. But the skin tone range is about the same. There's probably not many Asians as naturally pale as the fairest Irish folks, though. And most of the Asians I saw as a kid (this was Florida, its not many Asians and mostly Chinese) were of a peachy skin tone. Not unlike white people.
Hideki Matsui isn't that dark, btw. He's darker than I am but I have seen plenty fully European people with the same skin tone. Anyway, the Chinese people that I perceived as white as a kid did not have the complexion that Hideki does. Gotta put that in perspective. The way children perceive race is more innocent and pure and its sad that adults gotta ruin that. For example, my little sister as a little kid used to say "that person's not black, they're brown! that person's not white, they're peach!" The notions we hold about race are shaped up by centuries of prejudice and categorisation. Not saying we need to do away with all the way, but maybe examine the trivialness of a lot of it.
They have a lot of dark skinned white people in the South Cajun and mixed Native American and European heritage. I doubt anybody would care. The only give away would be if they spoke Italian.
As a whole, Arabs are not considered white even if some of the Levant Arabs are white looking
Considering the history of countries like Spain, Italy, Greece, etc, with the rest of the larger Mediterranean region, I have some news for you about "wholly European ancestry."
Arabs aren't monolithic in appearance by any means either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by naners1
I have run into lots of italians that look similar to the Italian Prime Minister luigi di maio. Most southern europeans look very latino. IMO they have better features than the nordic anglo germatic types.
They have a lot of dark skinned white people in the South Cajun and mixed Native American and European heritage. I doubt anybody would care. The only give away would be if they spoke Italian.
To be honest, if you took the former Italian PM from naners clip and put him in the Midwest away from Chicago with its large Mexican population, he would probably raise more eyebrows than the Deep South. Not all the Midwestern cities received a lot of Italian immigrants back in the day, and he would certainly be considered "ethnic" looking. Ethnic meaning that you look like *something* but you're also sort of white looking, so I'm just going to guess Italian. It's the catch all in a region full of Germans and Irish.
Interestingly enough though, it's actual Mexican Americans who would probably want to know if the former Italian PM was Mexican as well if they saw someone who looked like him. I get asked all the time in Chicago if I'm Mexican by other Mexicans, even though I'm half Armenian. White people up here sometimes guess Mexican too, but I get Italian and Greek a lot from them, much like what happens when I'm down in St. Louis.
Most white people aren't that pale either, with the exception of mostly the Irish and Scottish. There's tons of white people with a natural broze skin tone, especially in sunny climates. Asian skin tones vary just as much as Europeans. Laotians are naturally tanner than Koreans. But the skin tone range is about the same. There's probably not many Asians as naturally pale as the fairest Irish folks, though. And most of the Asians I saw as a kid (this was Florida, its not many Asians and mostly Chinese) were of a peachy skin tone. Not unlike white people.
Hideki Matsui isn't that dark, btw. He's darker than I am but I have seen plenty fully European people with the same skin tone. Anyway, the Chinese people that I perceived as white as a kid did not have the complexion that Hideki does. Gotta put that in perspective. The way children perceive race is more innocent and pure and its sad that adults gotta ruin that. For example, my little sister as a little kid used to say "that person's not black, they're brown! that person's not white, they're peach!" The notions we hold about race are shaped up by centuries of prejudice and categorisation. Not saying we need to do away with all the way, but maybe examine the trivialness of a lot of it.
Most of the Korean and Chinese people I know would be considered "brown" if they were Hispanic and had the same skin tone. I know quite a few of them and they tend to have skin color . White people are usually not that dark, and when they are it's because of hours of tanning/working in the sun, and you can see the pink undertones still.
And I've never thought of Asians as having a peachy skin tone. Even when they're pale, they don't have that pinkness that white people do, it's more of a yellow undertone.
Hideki Matsui might not be super dark, but it's certainly not pale either. White people only get that dark if they spend countless hours tanning, with the exception of some Mediterranean people (Greeks more so than Italians).
I do agree that the way people are labeled is silly. White people are pink rather than white, black people are brown rather than black, and Hispanic is not a race but I would describe most of them as tan rather than brown. Native Americans are tan rather than red.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
