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It seems like it has one of the higher concentrations of people with Southern accents, plus it personally meshes well with my personal idea of what the South is.
Even in the panhandle area, it seems like Southern accents are pretty common.
Yet many on here will state that it's either not that Southern, or just not Southern period.
Oklahoma is definitely NOT Southern.
It's "Southern" only in the same sense as Arizona, California or New Mexico are Southern - aka they lie at Southern latitudes.
It's not Dixie Southern at all.
There're a lot of Native Americans and Native American lands here, huge presense - this is a hallmark of the West, not The South. Recently, I've been in a town close to AR border and almost everyone in town was Native American, a lot of towns like this - this drastically changes once you cross the border to Arkansas, where people are mostly White near the border and more Black people as you travel East. OK has very large Native American population, out of all US states.
May be it depends what type of people one tends to interact with.... but I'm yet to hear a single case of Southern accent in Oklahoma! (I'm writing this from OK, by the way, where I'm spending some time...rural Eastern, Western, North-Central, Panhandle OK, and Oklahoma City). In another transition state, West Virginia, I heard Southern accents all the time.
There's a lot of cowboy-themed decor here, car stickers....this is definitely not "Dixie", but "Western".
OK doesn't have these typical insular vibes that you get in "The South", it's kind of Western Frontier vibes in OK. There's very clear significant change in culture once you cross from the South into OK.
Oklahoma Whites remind me the most of Whites from Great Plains, such as ones from Kansas or Nebraska, in the way they speak, look and act.
OK is very similar to Great Plains states. It's where the East becomes the West but it's definitely in no way, shape or form the Dixie South, more of Southern Midwest transition zone to the West.
May be it depends what type of people one tends to interact with.... but I'm yet to hear a single case of Southern accent in Oklahoma! (I'm writing this from OK, by the way, where I'm spending some time...rural Eastern, Western, North-Central, Panhandle OK, and Oklahoma City). In another transition state, West Virginia, I heard Southern accents all the time.
There's a lot of cowboy-themed decor here, car stickers....this is definitely not "Dixie", but "Western".
OK doesn't have these typical insular vibes that you get in "The South", it's kind of Western Frontier vibes in OK. There's very clear significant change in culture once you cross from the South into OK.
Oklahoma Whites remind me the most of Whites from Great Plains, such as ones from Kansas or Nebraska, in the way they speak, look and act.
OK is very similar to Great Plains states. It's where the East becomes the West but it's definitely in no way, shape or form the Dixie South, more of Southern Midwest transition zone to the West.
But Texas is definitely big on that cowboy vibe. It may not have that many American Indians but it's got lots more Hispanics than other areas of the South except for Southern Florida (which isn't culturally Southern anyways). Texas also has areas of semi-arid and even desert land, in the case of El Paso. If Oklahoma has a Southwestern feel in parts of it, then Texas has even more Southwestern areas--the entire Trans-Pecos and Panhandle would qualify.
And despite all the western, cowboy culture in Texas, Texas is still unmistakably Southern. Considering that Oklahoma is the state most similar to Texas, I can see why some people consider Oklahoma the South. Scores of people from Dallas keep saying how OKC culture is very similar to Dallas-Fort Worth, or considering how Oklahoma weather is closer to Texas than the Midwest. The largest denomination in Oklahoma is Southern Baptist. Oklahoma City has an accent that resembles more of North Texas than anywhere else. The religious conservatism makes Oklahoma is one of the most redneck states in the country--a redneck atmosphere more associated with the South, not the Midwest.
Yes, Oklahoma has a very different history from Texas. But the two converged to have largely the same culture today. Just like Canada and the U.S.
But Texas is definitely big on that cowboy vibe. It may not have that many American Indians but it's got lots more Hispanics than other areas of the South except for Southern Florida (which isn't culturally Southern anyways). Texas also has areas of semi-arid and even desert land, in the case of El Paso. If Oklahoma has a Southwestern feel in parts of it, then Texas has even more Southwestern areas--the entire Trans-Pecos and Panhandle would qualify.
And despite all the western, cowboy culture in Texas, Texas is still unmistakably Southern. Considering that Oklahoma is the state most similar to Texas, I can see why some people consider Oklahoma the South. Scores of people from Dallas keep saying how OKC culture is very similar to Dallas-Fort Worth, or considering how Oklahoma weather is closer to Texas than the Midwest. The largest denomination in Oklahoma is Southern Baptist. Oklahoma City has an accent that resembles more of North Texas than anywhere else. The religious conservatism makes Oklahoma is one of the most redneck states in the country--a redneck atmosphere more associated with the South, not the Midwest.
Yes, Oklahoma has a very different history from Texas. But the two converged to have largely the same culture today. Just like Canada and the U.S.
Texas is a big state which isn't uniform... for me the entire Texas doesn't belong to the South as in Dixie South either. I'm not very familiar with different parts of Texas in-person, having only driven through the state with overnight stays. There're people who disagree with bundling TX with the South in general - but at least TX was part of the Confederacy....unlike Oklahoma, which is a big deal. Oklahoma was Indian Territory at that time and had some of it's military units support the Confederacy, I guess having certain political reasons, but these were very different reasons from the ones of the states to the East of it, I believe.
Regarding religious conservatism atmosphere in Oklahoma - there's plenty of that stuff and more in Kansas and Nebraska, and if anything, OK reminds me of these Great Plains states. I'd lived in Nebraska for some time and spent time in Kansas (and I'd lived in the South, including Deep South)
As to belonging to Southern Baptist church....I'd argue it's not enough to measure "southern-ness".
West Virginia, which is pretty Southern (even though it's a transition state), has only 4% of adult population identifying as Southern Baptists (exactly the same as in Kansas)....while New Mexico which is very un-Southern has 7% Southern Baptists. There're only a very small percent of Southern Baptists in New Orleans area, which is Deep South....but there's a cluster of them in Nevada and a few in Illinois.
To me, the feel and the atmosphere in Oklahoma is Western, kind of Southwestern and quite un-Southern. By the way, while Native American population percent isn't that big (because there're a lot of Whites living in a couple of big cities), the tribal territories/jurisdictions are enormous and this is very much not Southern.
Regarding changes in culture... Texas was the original West, and many consider it West today...however, for the West Coast population Texas is really the solid East, so point of reference also matters. Cowboy touristy stuff....one can see it in parts of Tennessee, even, so yes it's not a good enough measure of Western-ness, as the West had shifted over time...to the West. To me, the West is Frontier and the mentality in the South is the opposite of Frontier mentality.
Texas is a big state which isn't uniform... for me the entire Texas doesn't belong to the South as in Dixie South either. I'm not very familiar with different parts of Texas in-person, having only driven through the state with overnight stays. There're people who disagree with bundling TX with the South in general - but at least TX was part of the Confederacy....unlike Oklahoma, which is a big deal.
Regarding religious conservatism atmosphere in Oklahoma - there's plenty of that stuff and more in Kansas and Nebraska, and if anything, OK reminds me of these Great Plains states. I'd lived in Nebraska for some time and spent time in Kansas (and I'd lived in the South, including Deep South)
As to belonging to Southern Baptist church....I'd argue it's not enough to measure "southern-ness".
West Virginia, which is pretty Southern (even though it's a transition state), has only 4% of adult population identifying as Southern Baptists (exactly the same as in Kansas)....while New Mexico which is very un-Southern has 7% Southern Baptists. There're only a very small percent of Southern Baptists in New Orleans area, which is Deep South....but there's a cluster of them in Nevada and a few in Illinois.
To me, the feel and the atmosphere in Oklahoma is Western and quite un-Southern. By the way, while Native American population percent isn't that big (because there're a lot of Whites living in a couple of big cities), the tribal territories/jurisdictions are enormous and this is very much not Southern.
The point about Natives is odd, they used to make up 100% of the South too.
The accents in Oklahoma resemble the South to me, not the West where people have generic American accents.
The point about Natives is odd, they used to make up 100% of the South too.
The accents in Oklahoma resemble the South to me, not the West where people have generic American accents.
"Used to" is a key word here.... ain't no more, and hardy any lands or populations retained there.
What happened to them in the South? May be the answer explains my point. South is a very different type of society, fundamentally different, we all know history.
I haven't heard Southern accents in OK so far....rather Great Plains type of pronunciation. In the West, by the way, there's no generic American pronunciation all over either, it depends on the region. I don't know what is generic American accent, every region in the country has own pronunciation. There're different Southern accents too, but in OK I'm just not hearing them.
I wonder if they mean Oklahomans or Dust Bowl migrants in general, from other affected states, which were often still called Okies.
I definitely can recognize remains of Okie heritage, including manner of speech, in parts of Eastern CA and CA Central Valley.
"Used to" is a key word here.... ain't no more, and hardy any lands or populations retained there.
What happened to them in the South? May be the answer explains my point. South is a very different type of society, fundamentally different, we all know history.
I haven't heard Southern accents in OK so far....rather Great Plains type of pronunciation. In the West, by the way, there's no generic American pronunciation all over either, it depends on the region. I don't know what is generic American accent, every region in the country has own pronunciation. There're different Southern accents too, but in OK I'm just not hearing them.
The Native American population is so low throughout the US that I never really hear of it as a defining characteristic of any region. It only exceeds 10% in a small number of states.
But even then, there are plenty of registered Native Americans in North Carolina and Florida.
If Oklahoma accents aren't Southern, then I don't know what is. It certainly sounds more Southern to me than the average accent I hear from Virginia, which this forum is obsessed with insisting is still Southern in 2019.
If you think religious conservativeness is a defining feature of the south, you should go to rural western Iowa, rural western Minnesota, the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, etc.
They might not be Baptists, but there's a lot of conservative Christianity in those areas.
I do think there's a lot of Southern accents in Oklahoma, but like everything else there, its dependent on where you are in the state, and it's often cut with a western/cowboy twang that's a whole different thing than what someone from Georgia sounds like.
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