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I checked with my staff meteorologists Hale Storm and Hugh Miditity on this one. Having lived in New England, Minnesota, Indiana, Ohio, Kansas and Missouri I can honestly say that interior CT is much colder than MO and KS in the winter. Summers are also much milder too. Coastal CT up to Interstate 84 is a bit milder than the northwest or northeast hills. Central and northern Maine is just as cold as most of Minnesota except for the northern tier of Minnesota which is colder.
Both New England and the Midwest are vast areas and the climate varies tremendously. However, for generalization purposes. New England summers are generally cooler than Midwest summers and its winters are warmer due to its position near the ocean.
New England summers are not humid consistently. You'll have 3 or 4 days of hot and humid then comes a cold front that will knock down temps. I suspect it is the same in the Midwest. New England tend to get more snow as we get giant Noreasters and our cold snaps in the winter tend not to last as long. However, Northern New England generally is much colder and snowier than southern New England. The closer one is to the ocean the less snow and warmer the temps in winter.
..and it rings true historically, and with my experiences.
Growing up in Burlington, VT, my city was one of those exceptions to the rule in that it had BOTH very cold temperatures and very heavy snowfall.
Otherwise, though, the Upper Midwest ( esp. MN and WI) are colder than the vast majority of New England; only select portions of VT, NH and ME can compete with the Upper Midwest, temperature-wise. Burlington, VT is colder than Chicago, but not as cold as Minneapolis. In terms of snowfall, the northeastern states generally have more snowfall than the midwestern ones, with the heaviest snowfall coming with the lake-effect snow across upstate NY (Buffalo to Syracuse to Albany), and then into northern VT, NH, and central-northern ME. Boston and southern New England are still reasonably cold, but not frigid like northern NE or the Upper Midwest.
I checked with my staff meteorologists Hale Storm and Hugh Miditity on this one. Having lived in New England, Minnesota, Indiana, Ohio, Kansas and Missouri I can honestly say that interior CT is much colder than MO and KS in the winter. Summers are also much milder too. Coastal CT up to Interstate 84 is a bit milder than the northwest or northeast hills. Central and northern Maine is just as cold as most of Minnesota except for the northern tier of Minnesota which is colder.
Not real sure who those folks are (lol)…but I have been a research climatologist for 16 years.
True that Missouri and Kansas in the 3 winter months "overall" may by slightly more mild than southern Connecticut in winter…but my original assertion - that the Midwest is colder and has a worse/longer winter than Connecticut south on the East Coast cannot be disputed based on "NOAA climate date". As I mentioned, I don’t consider Kansas or Missouri truly the Midwest. Also, I spent some time in KC in the 1990’s…it didn’t seem much different than New Haven, Trenton, NJ, or NYC in winter, only a little less snow. It was cloudier in winter in KC however than the East Coast. Also, keep in mind, that one can’t base the climate of a location on a certain time that they spent there…one of the reasons that NOAA climate folks use longer-term data (30 years). Still the numbers are the numbers…the map above shows it no warmer in most of Missouri or Kansas in December than from Connecticut/Rhode Island southward on the East Coast.
As far as New England (MA northward) vs the Midwest… the New England cold is pretty wimpy in terms of size and depth of cold… compared to the Midwest when you look at the scientific facts. Here is one more map that really tells the story. The average minimum temp in January (the coldest month of the year in the USA on average).
As you can see in the northern New England region…only far northern NY State, Vermont, central and Northern New Hampshire, and interior Maine have “lows” in the singles numbers (below 10 F).…while in the Midwest, a huge area from northern Nebraska east to Wisconsin is just as cold as Vermont, and Maine, while a sizable area from North Dakota to Minnesota blows the doors of Maine or Vermont with night time lows below 0 F (a full 10 F colder than northern most New England). This map is based on NOAA 30 year normals.
I would watch the info you get from those “staff meteorologists” who are secretly
“winter fans” up in northern New England. They’re perspective, although folksy, fun, and provincial…is often not scientifically accurate (lol). Please don’t read the New England Farmers Almanac…the authors (who are up in New England “and” snow fans)… will tell you that Concord, NH is way colder than Fargo, ND (lol).
Someone in eastern North Dakota or northern Minnesota would laugh at a typical New Hampshire, Maine, or Vermont winter. Trust me.
I don't think anyone's arguing against the fact that winters in northern MN and ND are much colder than in northern New England.
But the map you just posted shows that temperatures in CT and RI aren't as mild as you're making them out to be compared to the Midwest. Almost all of Ohio, most of Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, and much of Kansas are warmer.
And if we look at snowfall data:
The range of snowfall in CT is akin to the range in Minnesota. I'd hardly consider that "mild."
If they are they are…then I think they would be on the extreme “southern end” of the Midwest…the way one might consider Delaware part of the south. I don’t know about Missouri, but I would likely group Kansas with the southern Plains, not the Midwest.
Also, one look at the maps shows that most of Kansas or Missouri is no warmer in December than Connecticut or southern Rhode Island. January or Feb might be slightly warmer...but also more cloudy than the East Coast from Connecticut south. Also, both Kansas and Missouri are in the same zone 6/7 that Connecticut is in.
Just as the Northeast (and others) is divided into two regions (Mid-Atlantic and New England) the Midwest is divided into two regions (Plains and Great Lakes).
Wavehunter007. Hale Storm is married to Gail Storm. Gail currently works for a sister station in another city. They've had a stormy relationship over the years, but right now the relationship seems to be in the eye of the hurricane.
They can attest that the winters in MO and KS are nowhere near as cold as you'll find in any CT location. I did a quick check of my hometown which is near Hartford and the average January low temp is 13 degrees and the average July high temp is about 83 degrees. In contrast, the last time I looked, the average January low temp in KC is about 19 degrees and the average July high is about 90 degrees. Climatologically speaking that is a significant difference in cold and warmth.
I don't think anyone's arguing against the fact that winters in northern MN and ND are much colder than in northern New England.
But the map you just posted shows that temperatures in CT and RI aren't as mild as you're making them out to be compared to the Midwest. Almost all of Ohio, most of Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, and much of Kansas are warmer.
And if we look at snowfall data:
The range of snowfall in CT is akin to the range in Minnesota. I'd hardly consider that "mild."
We seem to be comparing Connecticut and Rhode Island to places further and further south in the Midwest (lol). My original assertion was that most of the Midwest…cities like Des Moines, Chicago, Milwaukee, Cleveland…etc, are colder, get more snow, are cloudier, and have more extreme lows… than most of Connecticut and Rhode Island in winter.
Here’s is another map that shows the number of days with freeze (32 F). Southern Connecticut and southern Rhode Island have less than 120 days (4 months) with freeze. Northern Indiana, northern Illinois, and a good chuck of Ohio have “more” days with freeze. Most places in far southern Connecticut only average about 105 days with freeze. As you can see, only once you approach the Kentucky state line in far southern Illinois/ southern Indiana are the number of days with freeze less than places in southern Connecticut. I think once you get this far south (near Kentucky, or Missouri) it is unfair to say this is the Midwest. As you can see on the map…nowhere in Ohio has less days with freeze than southern Connecticut/Rhode Island according to NOAA NWS normals.
As far as seasonal snowfall...while places in CT up along the Massachusetts line get snow in the range of parts of Minnesota (a dry climate)…places in southern Connecticut get far less. Bridgeport and New Haven, CT average 24.5 inches of snow winter…Minneapolis, Chicago, Cleveland, and Milwaukee all average more than 40 inches a season.
I guess I just don't really know why this debate began. A portion of New England has milder winter weather than most of the Midwest, and a portion of the Midwest has milder winter weather than most of New England. We really can't make any generalizations about these huge regions.
Wavehunter007. Hale Storm is married to Gail Storm. Gail currently works for a sister station in another city. They've had a stormy relationship over the years, but right now the relationship seems to be in the eye of the hurricane.
They can attest that the winters in MO and KS are nowhere near as cold as you'll find in any CT location. I did a quick check of my hometown which is near Hartford and the average January low temp is 13 degrees and the average July high temp is about 83 degrees. In contrast, the last time I looked, the average January low temp in KC is about 19 degrees and the average July high is about 90 degrees. Climatologically speaking that is a significant difference in cold and warmth.
As I mentioned above…I don’t think it’s really fair to use places like Missouri or Kansas in a Midwest comparison. While I agree that KS and MO are milder in winter than northern Connecticut or northern Rhode Island in winter…there is little difference between southern CT/RI and parts of Missouri. Your comparison took Hartford (in extreme northern CT).
Here is the NWS data for Bridgeport, CT in southern Connecticut and Hannibal, MO in northern Missouri. The results even surprised me, but not when you consider that Connecticut has the warm Atlantic so close. As you can see, it’s actually WARMER in Bridgeport, CT than in Hannibal, MO in the winter months…January in Bridgeport, CT is a full 5 F warmer! I left the official NWS links for you to see. (1970 – 2000 ave temperatures).
Jan- 29.9 F
Feb – 31.6
Mar – 39.2
Apr –48.7
May – 59.0
Jun – 68.0
Jul –74.0
Aug – 73.1
Sep –65.7
Oct – 54.9
Nov – 45.3
Dec –35.2
YEARLY MEAN = 52.1 F
Sorry to be such a data geek… but I do this for a living (lol). You mentioned you lived in New England...I think that's part of the problem/confusion...much of Conecticut and southern Rhode Island are not "New England" climate wise. The numbers above show it. I guess you'll have to tell Gail and Hale to update their knowledge (lol).
Gail has always been a windbag and Hale has a tendency to come down hard on some people. But Hugh is usually right on the ball. :-)
I don't put much faith in maps of this nature. They are too general to be truly accurate. New England weather can vary greatly within a small radius. Example: In February 1977 I can recall seeing the thermometer reach -20 to -22 degrees three times at our house which was just 17 miles NW of Hartford. Yet the temperature at BDL which is 13 miles north of Hartford was about zero to -5 degrees each of those days. And in January 2005 I can recall the thermometer reading -15 at my own weather station in Lincoln, Maine but 50 miles south in Bangor the reported temperature was -29 degrees.
I understand your point that RI and CT coastal weather is different than that of interior New England. But this is true about coastal community weather in most of the country. Even coastal Maine weather in the winter is much milder than the weather just a few miles inland.
The best gauge or most accurate way to get a real idea of the weather in a community is by providing stats such as those that you printed for Hannibal and Bridgeport. But maps? Nope.
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THis post is very good..
