How to Solve The Gun Problem in USA 101 - an European perspective (Congress, illegal)
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I currently live in Europe, I dream about permanently moving to USA.
There's only one thing that truly disgusts me about the US, and it's actually a big scary thing: guns and how they're so widespread in the population for both the law-abiding citizien and the criminal.
Really, it's such a shame for a great and first world country like the USA to have such ugly violent and murder rate statistics compared to all other first world countries in the EU and Asia.
In most of Europe you can live in the worst areas of the city on the cheap, and generally still be really safe, you just wouldn't be in a desiderable and hip area with many amenities. You don't ever even think about guns in the EU or the possibility to be ever shot at. I'm not saying there's no crime - just that being held at gun point is not something that ever crosses the mind of an EU citizien, not even walking in the worst parts of the city.
Practically no one owns a gun, there are no weapon shops, it's really hard to obtain or even steal one since you would have to take them from the armed forces themselves. Looking at all the first world countries it seems obvious that if there are practically no guns in the entire country and if it's really hard to obtain one, the place is automatically safer from violent crime.
The common, Moderator cut: Charged Language argument, is that the cities with the most gun control in USA (like Chicago) are actually the most dangerous and these rules apply only to the law-abiding citiziens.Well, duh. What's the point of gun control in isolated areas if in all the rest of the country is so easy to obtain / steal / traffic weapons, simply because they're everywhere, and in general owning a gun is considered a normal thing?
I'm not even talking about gun control, I'm talking about gun banning: what's the point of a citizien in a first world country in even owning a gun? What prevents the USA from completely banning gun ownership except for the armed forces (police, army etc.) in all the USA, secure the borders with Mexico in order to not let guns in, close all the weapon shops, stop selling bullets and magazines in all the country (you don't even to take guns away from the criminals, no bullets anywhere = no shootings)?
When there are no more guns to steal, because no one owns one or sell one, and no bullets to fire because no one owns or sells one and when the borders are safely guarded (not letting guns and bullets come from Mexico) - you can guarantee the shootings will end. Owning a gun, being able to buy bullets, doesn't make you safer - instead it's the complete opposite: you are giving criminals the chance to easily find / steal / own guns everywhere in the country and use them against you.
Really, why doesn't USA move into the right direction and starts looking at other first world countries? Ban the guns, Moderator cut: Charged Language
Moderator Note: This thread will be reopened, however the rhetoric needs to be toned down. I would suggest posters read the guidelines at the top of the forum, including the pieces below:
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The common, completely retarded argument, is that the cities with the most gun control in USA (like Chicago) are actually the most dangerous and these rules apply only to the law-abiding citiziens.
So what you're saying is, the places with the most gun control are the most dangerous, and the places with the least gun control are the safest.
I currently live in Europe, I dream about permanently moving to USA.
There's only one thing that truly disgusts me about the US, and it's actually a big scary thing: guns and how they're so widespread in the population for both the law-abiding citizien and the criminal.
Really, it's such a shame for a great and first world country like the USA to have such ugly violent and murder rate statistics compared to all other first world countries in the EU and Asia.
In most of Europe you can live in the worst areas of the city on the cheap, and generally still be really safe, you just wouldn't be in a desiderable and hip area with many amenities. You don't ever even think about guns in the EU or the possibility to be ever shot at. I'm not saying there's no crime - just that being held at gun point is not something that ever crosses the mind of an EU citizien, not even walking in the worst parts of the city.
Practically no one owns a gun, there are no weapon shops, it's really hard to obtain or even steal one since you would have to take them from the armed forces themselves. Looking at all the first world countries it seems obvious that if there are practically no guns in the entire country and if it's really hard to obtain one, the place is automatically safer from violent crime.
The common, Moderator cut: Charged Language argument, is that the cities with the most gun control in USA (like Chicago) are actually the most dangerous and these rules apply only to the law-abiding citiziens.Well, duh. What's the point of gun control in isolated areas if in all the rest of the country is so easy to obtain / steal / traffic weapons, simply because they're everywhere, and in general owning a gun is considered a normal thing?
I'm not even talking about gun control, I'm talking about gun banning: what's the point of a citizien in a first world country in even owning a gun? What prevents the USA from completely banning gun ownership except for the armed forces (police, army etc.) in all the USA, secure the borders with Mexico in order to not let guns in, close all the weapon shops, stop selling bullets and magazines in all the country (you don't even to take guns away from the criminals, no bullets anywhere = no shootings)?
When there are no more guns to steal, because no one owns one or sell one, and no bullets to fire because no one owns or sells one and when the borders are safely guarded (not letting guns and bullets come from Mexico) - you can guarantee the shootings will end. Owning a gun, being able to buy bullets, doesn't make you safer - instead it's the complete opposite: you are giving criminals the chance to easily find / steal / own guns everywhere in the country and use them against you.
Really, why doesn't USA move into the right direction and starts looking at other first world countries? Ban the guns, Moderator cut: Charged Language
Because the ultra conservative right wing Judge Antonin Scalia got us into this mess legally and now the NRA won't let us get out. Read the below thoroughly please:
So what you're saying is, the places with the most gun control are the most dangerous, and the places with the least gun control are the safest.
Which side of the debate are you arguing, again?
No, re-read my post. I was just quoting the common counter-argument against gun control: gun-control opponents love to cite Chicago as an example of why "disarming law-abiding citiziens" doesn't stop crime.
My point is that isolated gun control doesn't do anything if anywhere else in the country is so easy to steal / traffic / own weapons.
And I think that that gun "control" is not enough, I'm talking about gun banning.
No one, other than armed forces, should own a gun in a first world country. Period.
That's how it works in the rest of the first world, and it works well.
The more guns are there in the country, the more criminals can steal and use against you.
I live in a small community in Eastern Pennsylvania; not exactly the Wild West. We do have a strong tradition of sport hunting here, and a custom gunsmith who sells extremely-sophisticated rifles for target shooting (an Olympic sport recognized by the entire world, BTW). But it has been over fifteen years since I've seen a firearm anywhere save when carried by a police officer.
Guns aren't the problem; the two problems are: (1)the gangster/thug culture, which is limited to certain sections of our large cosmopolitan cities, and (2) the fantasy of Political Correctness, which is rampant in our over-sensitized public school system, and expects all our children to grow into passive, well-behaved little girls. That provokes a reaction which moderates itself back toward common sense for most of us, but propels a terrifying few toward the sort of rampage and tragedy that helps to create the distorted picture in the mind of our OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeltaOrionis
And I think that that gun "control" is not enough, I'm talking about gun banning.
That simply is not going to happen; the high-crime neighborhoods are saturated with guns, and the gangster element has a near-inexhaustible supply of them.
But the resistance is even stronger from the majority of the citizenry in rural areas who use firearms responsibly. Even if the do-gooders ever managed to enact their wishes and fantasies into law, there would be a grass-roots resistance which would make the mistake of Prohibition from ninety years ago seem a joke by comparison.
My advice to our OP would be to do some exploring outside of New England, and outside of the supposedly-"progressive" cosmopolitian cities.
The majority of people who live in smaller, closer-knit communities are law-abiding, outgoing and friendly -- and a lot more diverse than the picture painted by our detractors.
But we don't want the class-consciousness, limited societal mobility, and stagnation that characterizes Europe imposed upon us; it's what most of our ancestors came here to avoid.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 11-02-2015 at 11:50 AM..
I cannot defend myself with my bare hands against a thug armed or not. I have a small chance of defending my self if I am armed with a gun. I prefer the small chance over the certainty of being hurt or killed.
I understand what you are trying to say but disagree with you completely. Public safety is enhanced when the decent civilians are armed. Crime is reduced because the muggers find less dangerous ways too make a living.
Instead of confiscating civilian guns I propose we arm more civilians by having firearms training and sports in high schools all over the country. That would teach young people how to keep, carry and use guns. It would give the peaceful the piece of mind created by knowing they could fight back and disquiet the thugs by showing them that their potential victim can fight back.
Some would argue that the penalty for armed robbery is not death and a mugger should not be killed for attempting to commit an non capital crime. I argue that deliberate assault with a deadly weapon is a capital crime and the execution is to be carried out by the potential victim on the spot.
Banning guns will just make the illegal ones get into the country more from places like mexico. Plus there are a lot of people who have equipment on their home shops to make their own guns.
.........No one, other than armed forces, should own a gun in a first world country. Period.
That's how it works in the rest of the first world, and it works well.
........
Okay, that's your side. Let me retort.
The United States as been around with the 2nd Amendment for over 220 years and the country is still here. On the basis of time, it doesn't seem like it was the wrong approach.
I cannot defend myself with my bare hands against a thug armed or not. I have a small chance of defending my self if I am armed with a gun. I prefer the small chance over the certainty of being hurt or killed.
I understand what you are trying to say but disagree with you completely. Public safety is enhanced when the decent civilians are armed. Crime is reduced because the muggers find less dangerous ways too make a living.
Instead of confiscating civilian guns I propose we arm more civilians by having firearms training and sports in high schools all over the country. That would teach young people how to keep, carry and use guns. It would give the peaceful the piece of mind created by knowing they could fight back and disquiet the thugs by showing them that their potential victim can fight back.
Some would argue that the penalty for armed robbery is not death and a mugger should not be killed for attempting to commit an non capital crime. I argue that deliberate assault with a deadly weapon is a capital crime and the execution is to be carried out by the potential victim on the spot.
This is exactly the kind of mentality that prevents the USA from being a safe place to live, compared to the other first world countries. This is the kind of "waking up" I'm talking about.
Most criminals, gang members and "thugs" use stolen weapons and ammunitions.
Do you think they steal them from the PDs? Hell no, they steal them from citiziens, they're so easy to find in the average big city househould anyway! They may even be able to buy / traffic them themselves given how lax gun regulations are in some US states, or at very least smash-and-grab the same weapon shop you buy your guns and ammos from, thinking how safer you are for being able to easily and conveniently buy them to protect your family.
Re-read what I wrote:
Quote:
When there are no more guns to steal, because no one owns one or sell one, and no bullets to fire because no one owns or sells one and when the borders are safely guarded (not letting guns and bullets come from Mexico) - you can guarantee the shootings will end. Owning a gun, being able to buy bullets, doesn't make you safer - instead it's the complete opposite: you are giving criminals the chance to easily find / steal / own guns everywhere in the country and use them against you.
Let this sink in, in another format if you prefer - having access to guns doesn't make you safer, is exactly what gives the "thug" the chance to kill your family if he wants to, with the gun he stole the other day from your neighbor.
Lastly, always consider other first world countries. There's a very strong correlation between gun ownership and murder rate, always remember that. And I've thoroughly explained why in my previous posts - not that it needs to be explained, it's rather obvious.
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