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OP, what you are missing is that we have the NRA here in the US.
The NRA...National Rifle Association... is an industry advocacy group. They have very cleverly espoused the "rights" of everyone in America to own a gun, and advocated that "the more guns, the safer we will be" as a nation. That sort of rhetoric appeals to an ignorant part of the population who eats this stuff up with language like "they will pry my gun from my cold dead hands" as the only way I will give up my gun. Sadly, that is the reality of the gun death machine here in the US.
This group of misguided souls loyally pay their dues to the NRA, and become the voice of idiocy espoused by the NRA. More guns. Guns for everyone. Guns in the classroom. In church. In public buildings. Only if we are ALL armed will we "solve" the gun violence epidemic.
The NRA in turn takes the dues money and funnels it to Congressmen, who in turn, in exchange for what effectively amounts to a bribe in any other language, vote in favor of reduced gun control legislation, and in support of additional gun manufacturers. In essence, the dues from the individual's is used to advocate for the gun manufacturers who could care less about death; their sole objective is to sell more guns. What damage those guns do is irrelevant, and ignored. Sales and profit are the sole objective.
It is a vicious circle: Money controls legislation which advocates for more guns.
And we see every day in our media the results of this maniacal behavior: Death from shootings. Our record day probably reaches over one hundred deaths--children (research Newtown, CT) in many cases. And still, it is not enough to bring people to their senses. We MIGHT reach a point where enough is enough. A couple thousand gun deaths at a school function. Maybe a sporting event, or a band concert, or an elementary school graduation ceremony.
Sadly, we seem to be no where near that level of gun deaths where "enough is enough".
OP - Here is an example of exactly what I was referencing.
Even though our gun related violence has been declining for the last 25 years, the agenda driven media has made such an impact on the simple minded, they are seemingly unaware of the actual facts regarding gun violence.
I am not, nor have I ever been, a member of the NRA. However, I am perfectly capable of interpreting statistics and also have the ability to not be swayed by emotional and hyperbolic ploys to deceive.
Unfortunately there are a small amount who fall for this ploy hook, line and sinker. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
No, it isn't possible. And for the same reason as the one that resulted in the new Trans-Pacific Partnership even after the economic disaster of NAFTA has been acknowledged: distributed opportunity among Americans is counter to the wishes of the 0.1%. Having black Americans educated and competing with other demographics for jobs, housing, etc. would in a stroke raise the overall unemployment index to 10% and cause huge spikes in the rental markets. Unacceptable. So the warehousing of low level, non-violent black men; the tacit acceptance of a high murder rate among violent black men; and the sanitization of the entire problem for public appeasment, via a visible black participation in society depicted in fictitious dramatizations in TV ads, Sitcoms, Movies, etc. will continue apace.
I challenge the notion that if black-black homicide were removed from the equation, that what would be left would be just a percent or so higher than Canada or The UK. What about the 25 or more thousand deaths a year that are due to guns and are NOT homicide? 20K suicides? 400 Police Shootings? 800 accidents. These deaths don't happen anywhere else called a First World Country. Black people are a visible scapegoat, trumped up to hide what is actually a serious white-white culture of casual violence. There are hundreds of white-white first degree murders committed with guns. There are road rage shootings and of course there are the growing number of school, church, mall and other mass location shootings all of which involve white Americans and occur nowhere else in the developed world.
Isn't America tired of being ranked with despotic, Failed State crapholes like Honduras, or Bangladesh for important metrics concerning quality of life and International Competitiveness? No? Never mind then. Carry on.
Have you any evidence to support this ludicrous claim? That the "point one percent", whoever that is, colludes to keep the black population in ghettos and poverty and violence? How is that in anyone's interest whatsoever?
The fact is that there is tremendous denial in this country, based on white guilt, liberal ideology and bias, and entrenched interests like NAACP, DNC, etc. which exist to perpetuate racism and guilt. The cynic in me would say they have no interest in solving these problems because then they would lose their jobs and have to really work for a living.
Denying that there is casual violence in the black neighborhoods is the final insult. There have been groups advocating for better policing, better neighborhood control of the streets, and to incarcerate the worst elements, but white politicians can't touch this because they're instantly accused of racism by people like this poster.
Moderator cut: Off Topic
Back here in the real world, some of us are actually trying to solve these problems. This kind of ignorance and denial is what perpetuates these problems. To solve a problem, you have to first recognize the problem.
I wish guns didn't exist, but they do. The horse is out of the barn in America, and there is little that can be done about it. Pro gun supporters don't want to give an inch, loonies will always get guns, and so will criminals. Seriously, what can be done to solve the problem? We don't need more laws, since the criminals and crazies don't care about laws anyway.
Moderator cut: Language Read my words: I dislike Europe, I just want USA to be the safe first world country it deserves to be when compared to the rest of the civilized world.
Have you ever even been to the US? Seriously. Stop listening to the news media and their claims that it's the wild west here.
I feel perfectly safe in my community. I have a concealed weapons permit and do NOT carry a firearm...because I feel safe. I'm not going to lie, there are scary places to be in the US, but most people don't live there.
Gang violence is an issue, but for the average citizen they will never encounter this in their daily travels. The unfortunate victims here are the familys of the gangs that live in the area that they constantly fight over. So unless you like to hang out on tough street corners at 2AM or other sketchy parts of major urban towns, you'll probably never see this violence first hand.
I know many middle-class, white collar type gun owners. They don't fit the stereotype of a "gun nut" that you see portrayed on the media. They have firearms for home defense, or hobbies, and practive safe handling and storage methods. You don't hear about these types of owners because there is nothing to talk about here. Most people I know who own guns don't talk about them. Other than a once or twice a year shooting range trip, you never would even see them anywhere.
Don't buy into the media gun hype that it's the wild west here and guns are strapped to the thighs of everyone you pass in the street. Like I said before, I had never even seen a gun until I was 30 years old and bought one for myself.
Europe is not immune to mass shootings either. Remember the 67 killed in Norway? 12 shot dead at Charlie Hebdo? How did those people still get weapons?
I'm moderate on gun rights. As the constitution says it should be regulated. I don't want everyone being able to buy suitcase nukes at Wal Mart. I support background checks. But there is no system that will prevent all mass killings.
The vast majority of USA gun deaths are non White criminals killing other non White criminals. They chose the lifestyle knowing the risks.
45 million people have simply used firearms for hunting. I find it much easier to kill a Deer with my rifle than my bare hands.
Yes, there is a very strong correlation between gun ownership and the murder rate. The murder rate in the U.S. is extremely high compared to other first world countries. But this isn't really where the problem lies.
We have a few longstanding conditions here that are quite different from other first world countries. One is widespread fear and distrust of our own government. That's a deep subject and I can't extrapolate on it here, but it is endemic. Some of it makes sense, some of it is absurd, but the point is that it's deeply entrenched throughout the U.S., and is not going away anytime soon. People believe they must protect themselves against a toxic government and its attempts to restrict their activities.
The other condition that you're unaware of is a cultural one. Americans have a weird love and near-worship of guns. When verbally cornered, they'll come up with halfway reasonable sounding excuses as to why they must be armed and over-armed at all times, but if you pay attention to their discourse when they're not trying to defend themselves, they talk about guns the way people used to talk about their mothers or their home towns. They venerate them, along with "the market" and a bizarre form of Christianity wherein they envision Christ as a gun-toting, money-grubbing, eco-trashing King of the World. You seem quite unaware of this aspect of American culture. I very much doubt that you would enjoy living here, and suggest you reconsider.
*snip*
The other condition that you're unaware of is a cultural one. Americans have a weird love and near-worship of guns. When verbally cornered, they'll come up with halfway reasonable sounding excuses as to why they must be armed and over-armed at all times, but if you pay attention to their discourse when they're not trying to defend themselves, they talk about guns the way people used to talk about their mothers or their home towns. They venerate them, along with "the market" and a bizarre form of Christianity wherein they envision Christ as a gun-toting, money-grubbing, eco-trashing King of the World. You seem quite unaware of this aspect of American culture. I very much doubt that you would enjoy living here, and suggest you reconsider.
I would bet money that I know far more gun owners than you do, yet I have never, not even once, heard any of them speak about guns in that manner. There are over 100 MILLION gun owners in this country, so to make a blanket statement like that is absurd.
The real telling part of your post is the humorous "King of the World" portion.
It reveals that you would prefer to live under a nanny state. I'm sure there are plenty that would have you.
TheDeltaOrionis, we in the U.S. don't have a gun problem; we have a socio-economic problem among the mostly Black disenfranchised youth in ghetto neighborhoods of our largest cities. These are the spots where most of the gun-related homicides occur. The FBI has provided the statistics at bjs.gov and you should go read them. Most of the shootings in this country are black-on-black. Most white deaths from guns are suicides.
You are correct. It is a socioeconomic problem. It is also a gun problem. You continue to characterize the socioeconomic problem as one that affects blacks mainly. Actually, you are wrong. In 2012 there were something like 8800 gun homicides. Lets say 7700 of those were black-black. That's still 1100 white-white homicides. Hardly insignificant. But wait, there's more. In the same year there were 20,000 gun suicides of which perhaps 18 were black men. That just flat out flabbergasts me and I'm not white. If you don't think that 20,000 people topping themselves (and the rate is rising) in a year is a socioeconomic problem of some severity then I don't know what to tell you. The gang-bangers have surely gone to a better place than the ghetto was. The kid that just came back from a deployment in Afghanistan to find that his old lady is now "friends" with his old high school buddy is sitting in his room with his Glock in his hand. Did we really need to send him off to war at 23 years of age? That middle manager who has been unable to find work since Intel closed down his division and moved it to India. He is about to put his grand-fathers Luger to his head and end the shame. He was contracted to Intel. He held up his end of the contract...
You can't tell me that removing guns from American society (while we work on winning the Class War for the Middle Class) won't have a positive effect on the suicide rate. The very determined will still find a way. A halving of the suicide rate would still be a stupendous gain for America.
Not saying there would be ,but if there an actual red dawn event ,you would actually see how many people own guns and are willing to use them . ( even if they are not well trained.)
People have guns because they do not trust other people. Justifiably .
An if you haven't noticed ,we are being crowded out by illegals from all over the world.
People that cannot, or will not do any thing to withstand the oppression in their own country are coming to ours .It is likely because their government does not fear the people.
This government doesn't like the fact we have arms, and "We The People" are getting fed up with the lies being fed us .
Supporting gun removal is feeding right into their hand , and like those coming here to escape, where will we go when we've been reduced to the illegals level ?
I currently live in Europe, I dream about permanently moving to USA.
Great! I am so glad my ancestors from Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, and Germany, along with my wife's ancestors from Italy and the Ukraine, came to America! It's something all intelligent, hard-working people aspire to.
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In most of Europe...
Practically no one owns a gun, there are no weapon shops, it's really hard to obtain or even steal one since you would have to take them from the armed forces themselves. Looking at all the first world countries it seems obvious that if there are practically no guns in the entire country and if it's really hard to obtain one, the place is automatically safer from violent crime.
The Muslim policeman in Paris who was murdered in the Charlie Hebdo massacre wasn't armed, but the terrorists were. Did they steal the automatic weapons from the armed forces? I don't think so. If the policeman was armed he may have been able to save some lives, including his own.
Moderator cut: Orphaned - Referenced Text has been deleted
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I'm not even talking about gun control, I'm talking about gun banning: what's the point of a citizien in a first world country in even owning a gun? What prevents the USA from completely banning gun ownership except for the armed forces (police, army etc.) in all the USA, secure the borders with Mexico in order to not let guns in, close all the weapon shops, stop selling bullets and magazines in all the country (you don't even to take guns away from the criminals, no bullets anywhere = no shootings)?
For one thing, it can be considered racist in the U.S. to single out Mexico as a source of illegal guns. We have a long, uncontrolled border with Canada, too, as well as thousands of miles of sea coast. Illegal guns can enter the country from almost anywhere.
The point of a US citizen owning a gun is "because we can". That's it. In a free society you are free to do as you please if you are not harming anyone else. Why do some people have green hair? What's the point? "Because they can" in a free society.
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When there are no more guns to steal, because no one owns one or sell one, and no bullets to fire because no one owns or sells one and when the borders are safely guarded (not letting guns and bullets come from Mexico) - you can guarantee the shootings will end. Owning a gun, being able to buy bullets, doesn't make you safer - instead it's the complete opposite: you are giving criminals the chance to easily find / steal / own guns everywhere in the country and use them against you.
Really, why doesn't USA move into the right direction and starts looking at other first world countries? Ban the guns, Moderator cut: Charged Language
There you go with "Mexico" again. Please, stop. As I noted above, illegal guns and other things can enter the country from many ports of entry.
The USA does not "move in the right direction" as you say, because we have a written Constitution that grants us the right to bear arms. Besides, there is a lot of stuff going on in "other first world countries" that makes me really thankful that my ancestors were smart enough to come here.
Last edited by Jeo123; 11-03-2015 at 01:30 PM..
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