How to Solve The Gun Problem in USA 101 - an European perspective (statistics, weapons)
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If the 2nd amendment scares you so much, why don;t you just stay in safe safe Europe????
Well, because for starters, Europe is not that much of bucolic country OP is depicting. There are areas in say France, in Marseilles, where local police does NOT enter at all, period. And such areas are scattered all over the Europe.
Also, now with flood of young males of certain age into Europe, it is likely to become even less safe.
Also, OP, if that's the ONLY thing you are concerned about with move to the USA - you'll be grossly disappointed when you come and root here. This is likely to be the LEAST of your concerns.
Last edited by Jeo123; 11-02-2015 at 02:20 PM..
Reason: Quote Edited
This is exactly the kind of mentality that prevents the USA from being a safe place to live, compared to the other first world countries. This is the kind of "waking up" I'm talking about.
Most criminals, gang members and "thugs" use stolen weapons and ammunitions.
Do you think they steal them from the PDs? Hell no, they steal them from citiziens, they're so easy to find in the average big city househould anyway! They may even be able to buy / traffic them themselves given how lax gun regulations are in some US states, or at very least smash-and-grab the same weapon shop you buy your guns and ammos from, thinking how safer you are for being able to easily and conveniently buy them to protect your family.
Re-read what I wrote:
Let this sink in, in another format if you prefer - having access to guns doesn't make you safer, is exactly what gives the "thug" the chance to kill your family if he wants to, with the gun he stole the other day from your neighbor.
Lastly, always consider other first world countries. There's a very strong correlation between gun ownership and murder rate, always remember that. And I've thoroughly explained why in my previous posts - not that it needs to be explained, it's rather obvious.
Our OP might be interested to learn that Mr. GregW subscribes to beliefs that would be considered "progressive" in many venues, and that he is a Vietnam-era veteran.
One of the reasons that Americans have acquitted themselves well when asked to risk their lives and shed their blood on the battlefield is that American men from rural backgrounds usually have some exposure to the responsible use of firearms before enlisting.
Banning guns will just make the illegal ones get into the country more from places like mexico. Plus there are a lot of people who have equipment on their home shops to make their own guns.
My reasoning involved securing the borders, which are already really secure anyway - most of border towns / cities like El Paso, TX are routinely named really safe.
Trust me, the average "thug" doesn't get his weapons from Mexico, there are plenty in USA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah
Okay, that's your side. Let me retort.
The United States as been around with the 2nd Amendment for over 220 years and the country is still here. On the basis of time, it doesn't seem like it was the wrong approach.
Moderator cut: Charged Language
That's a graph comparing first world countries, you'll find many similar ones on the net, enjoy.
You're dismissing a very evident and easily solvable problem with fallacious and pointless reasoning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003
If the 2nd amendment scares you so much, why don;t you just stay in safe safe Europe????
If you love your country so much, why don't you take steps to improve it by changing how you think about guns?
Last edited by Jeo123; 11-02-2015 at 04:32 PM..
Reason: Charged Language
I cannot defend myself with my bare hands against a thug armed or not. I have a small chance of defending my self if I am armed with a gun. I prefer the small chance over the certainty of being hurt or killed.
I understand what you are trying to say but disagree with you completely. Public safety is enhanced when the decent civilians are armed. Crime is reduced because the muggers find less dangerous ways too make a living.
Instead of confiscating civilian guns I propose we arm more civilians by having firearms training and sports in high schools all over the country. That would teach young people how to keep, carry and use guns. It would give the peaceful the piece of mind created by knowing they could fight back and disquiet the thugs by showing them that their potential victim can fight back.
Some would argue that the penalty for armed robbery is not death and a mugger should not be killed for attempting to commit an non capital crime. I argue that deliberate assault with a deadly weapon is a capital crime and the execution is to be carried out by the potential victim on the spot.
"Decent civilians" - there's the problem. We can't figure out how to only allow non criminals and sane people to be the "decent civilians" with guns. And with the NRA so against ANY form of gun control, it's easy for mentally unbalanced people to get guns, even legally.
I've personally never owned a gun, nor been in any situation where a gun would have helped me.
First of all, for those homicides listed, how many of them are due to guns?
B, wasn't Greece the country that Amnesty International wrote a nice book about how it tortured its citizens in the 70's? Weren't Germany and Italy the countries that weren't that kind to some of their citizens during the 40's?
Now we can say that was a while back and they've changed now......but when compared to 220 years, it really wasn't that long ago.
Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 11-02-2015 at 12:19 PM..
Also, OP, if that's the ONLY thing you are concerned about with move to the USA - you'll be grossly disappointed when you come and root here. This is likely to be the LEAST of your concerns.
Yes, it's the only thing I'm concerned about, I'm not defending Europe at all.
Europe is a cultural waste land, plagued by unemployment and a currency that ruined what good was left of most economies, mostly living in its own past, climate is ugly in Northern Europe, with an average of only 1600 hours of sun annually and constant gloom (and you all say that Seattle and Chicago, with more than 2k hours of sun annually has an horrible climate and always "gloomy").
Southern Europe is better in that regards but unlivable thanks to an horrible economy. I bet even Detroit is more thriving economically than Greece, Spain and Italy. That says a lot.
Beside that, the USA are so big anyone can certainly find his spot, his ideal climate and way of living.
As I said, the only BIG ugly thing about it is its gun problem, and the unwillingness of its citiziens to recognize it as such (a problem).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah
Well, A and B about the graph.
First of all, for those homicides listed, how many of them are due to guns?
B, wasn't Greece the country that Amnesty International wrote a nice book about how it tortured its citizens in the 70's? Weren't Germany and Italy the countries that weren't that kind to some of their citizens during the 40's?
Now we can say that was a while back and they've changed now......but when compared to 220 years, it really wasn't that long ago.
Happier now?
Really, there's no point in comparing the Nazi-era with today. We live in 2015. Stick to that.
As I said I'm not defending Europe at all, I vastly prefer the USA.
We're talking about the ugly gun problem of the USA still has in 2015 compared to the rest of the first world, and how it's easily solvable if only the average US citizien wanted to.
If the average citizien truly wanted to abolish the 2nd amendment (and from many replies here I already see it doesn't) you can bet the goverment would have done something about it, NRA or not.
Yes, it's the only thing I'm concerned about, I'm not defending Europe at all.
Europe is a cultural waste land, plagued by unemployment and a currency that ruined what good was left of most economies, mostly living in its own past, climate is ugly in Northern Europe, with an average of only 1600 hours of sun annually and constant gloom (and you all say that Seattle and Chicago, with more than 2k hours of sun annually has an horrible climate and always "gloomy").
Southern Europe is better in that regards but unlivable thanks to an horrible economy. I bet even Detroit is more thriving economically than Greece, Spain and Italy. That says a lot.
Beside that, the USA are so big anyone can certainly find his spot, his ideal climate and way of living.
As I said, the only BIG ugly thing about it is its gun problem, and the unwillingness of its citiziens to recognize it as such (a problem).
Happier now?
Really, there's no point in comparing the Nazi-era with today. We live in 2015. Stick to that.
As I said I'm not defending Europe at all, I vastly prefer the USA.
We're talking about the ugly gun problem of the USA still has in 2015 compared to the rest of the first world, and how it's easily solvable if only the average US citizien wanted to.
If the average citizien truly wanted to abolish the 2nd amendment (and from many replies here I already see it doesn't) you can bet the goverment would have done something about it, NRA or not.
Moderator cut: Charged Language
Simple answer, instead of trying to overthrow the Constitution and Culture of the United States, stay in Europe that already conforms to what you want.
A docile population of sheep that live under the heel of whoever is in power.
Some areas still have the Costa Nostra, I remember the Baader Minehoff gang and several others, this kind of stuff is still going strong in Europe, but the population only gets to submit or die until the government does something like putting together a paramilitary unit like the Caribinari that shoot first and ask questions later.
You like the European model, stay in Europe. If you don't like the American Model, don't move to the US.
If the 2nd amendment scares you so much, why don;t you just stay in safe safe Europe????
My sentiments exactly. IF/when you come to the United States, please stay in New York City, or Chicago, or Seattle, or Los Angeles or any other major city. Please stay out of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, etc.
Last edited by Jeo123; 11-02-2015 at 04:17 PM..
Reason: Edited Quote
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