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What interests me here is that I think traditionally a woman clothed as a man was a plucky novelty, or something, but a man who is feminine in any way (not even cross dressed) is shamed by his masculine peers. Which means that really, "society" follows the lead of the male voice in perception that feminism is an insult. A lesser thing. Evidenced in my own house when my husband tells my son to "man up" or "stop acting like a girl." Because a girl, you see, is a shameful and inferior thing to be, apparently.
^ Exactly.
As kids, little girls are (or used to be) called "tomboys" if they are tough, play sports well, and don't cry when they get hurt. They are usually smart and are treated with the respect usually given males (who are assumed to be superior). But nobody wants a son who's a "girly-boy", as that would suggest that he's something less than what the priviledge of his birth confers (Sorry, ladies, I mean no offense...I prefer the ladies!). Political correctness can often overcome overt prejudice, say, against gays, but the superiority of males in societies the world over suggests that male-preference is very deeply ingrained within the human psyche.
Last week I was at a Home Depot, and got lost among the aisles looking for some hardware. I spotted a fellow in a red apron and asked him for directions. To my surprise, "he" was a "she", but was very helpful and even walked me over to the items I was looking for. In this setting (home improvement), this young lady was just perfect. I'm not so sure a 'drag queen' would have any credibility with the guys who shop there, but this lady obviously knew her stuff, and had MY respect!
^^^^^^^^^^^^ And this is my point! The double standard. Why not acceptable for men in women's clothes?
Too: Yes, she is a cross-dresser. Just because it is acceptable does not make it so. She is donning attire normally worn by men, i.e. is crossing over gender-lines insofar as clothing is concerned. Ergo: Cross Dresser.
So I guess you just don't like women to wear pants? I'm actually a little confused what your actual concern is in the workplace? Is this just at the workplace or if you saw any woman wearing masculine attire are you upset and annoyed and going to start whining about it? Do you want to dress as a woman and feel you can't?
I need to ask you good people if you feel I am being overly intolerant or judegemental about a situation at work.
I have a co-worker. A female. A lesbian. A proud, self-proclaimed lesbian who makes no qualms, indeed, even flaunts who she is and what her sexual proclivities are. First: she goes by a man's name: Mickey.
She looks and dresses like a man; has hair styled like a man: short, parted on the side. Her girlfriend--who looks equally butch comes by often at closing time and hangs around for 15-20 minutes waiting for Mickey to get off.
So..yeah, yeah, to each their own and live and let live and all that. But here is my question:
Now, Let us for a moment switch the tables. My name is Tim. So..let's say I am a very, very effeminate gay guy. Let's say I dress like a woman; wear make-up and wear my hair in an effeminate style. I go by the name "Tina." I have my equally femme and obviously-gay boyfriend come by work once in awhile. Would this be tolerated in most workplaces, do think? Would I have ever even gotten the job? (I work in a public-contact environment.)
So, if you think the "Tina" thing would not fly, then is it sort of unfair that a "Mickey" is allowed? Is thisnot discriminatory? Unfair? Or should both types be allowed? Again, in a job where the general public is served all day long?
I am of the opinion that Tina would certainly not be allowed at my workplace. He just would not get hired in the first place. Also, I believe this "Mickey but not Tina" dynamic is fairly commonplace. And my opinion is that this is unfair to the male gays.
What say you? And is you agree with the "Mickey but not Tina" thing is goin' on, why do you think it is tolerated more?
Thank you for your thoughtful opinions.
Because that Oh Mickey, she's so fine, she's so fine she blows my mind...
Hey Mickey!
Hey Mickey!
So I guess you just don't like women to wear pants? I'm actually a little confused what your actual concern is in the workplace? Is this just at the workplace or if you saw any woman wearing masculine attire are you upset and annoyed and going to start whining about it? Do you want to dress as a woman and feel you can't?
Umm..no. I have no desire to cross-dress. And anyone who knows me would laugh at that idea, rest assured. And--yes, your sarcasm is duly noted: I don't mind women wearing pants. In fact a nice tight little butt in faded snug jeans is one of my great pleasures to behold.
But a Mickey in men's baggy, Wrangler carpenter pants with a men's belt? Knife on the belt; mens flannel shirt, untucked, men's tee shirt; men's boots? Hmm... Not so much. LOL
I am hopelessly hetero, and not that big of a redneck, despite what some of you reading this thread might think. I have had gay friends, mostly male, in the past. I think lipstick lesbians are sexy. But at the same time--*sigh*--as I mentioned at least twice already, I have also noticed many instances of femme male gay's being derided and discriminated against. Even ones who do not flaunt it, but rather it is just their natural mannerism: the walk, the lisp sometimes. (of course not all gay men have this).
So..when I see Mickey do everything in her power: swagger; dress; speech; mannerisms' grooming, et al to let anyone who sees her know that she is a very butch lesbian and could care less what you think, well, the double standard just leaps out at me. Hell, maybe I am thinking about this too much. I just wanted to get a bit of feedback on it, nothing more. I mean, hey: it's not like it's keeping me up nights.
Umm..no. I have no desire to cross-dress. And anyone who knows me would laugh at that idea, rest assured.
I am hopelessly hetero, and not that big of a redneck, despite what some of you reading this thread might think. I have had gay friends, mostly male, in the past. I think lipstick lesbians are sexy. But at the same time--*sigh*--as I mentioned at least twice already, I have also noticed many instances of femme male gay's being derided and discriminated against. Even ones who do not flaunt it, but rather it is just their natural mannerism: the walk, the lisp sometimes. (of course not all gay men have this).
So..when I see Mickey do everything in her power: swagger; dress; speech; mannerisms' grooming, et al to let anyone who sees her know that she is a very butch lesbian and could care less what you think, well, the double standard just leaps out at me. Hell, maybe I am thinking about this too much. I just wanted to get a bit of feedback on it, nothing more. I mean, hey: it's not like it's keeping me up nights.
I think you are a little bit jealous of her masculine energy and how comfortable she is with herself. I'm thinking you need to become comfortable with yourself not cut others down. The problem is clearly with you not with this unknown Mickey....
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