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Well, kudos to you my friend for selflessly giving your hard-earned dollars to a cause you truly believe in.
However, I will have to respectfully decline your suggestion that I too contribute. I am afraid that this organization is of the mission to encourage people like Mickey, and I simply, personally disagree with that. I am not saying you are right or wrong--it is just that we have different beliefs on such matters and also as to business owner's rights.
For example, I am of the opinion than a business owner has the right to hire anyone he pleases. If he does not like gays or hippies or rednecks, it is his right--his money, after all!--to hire and not hire whom he pleases.
Charities I contribute to: Habitat for Humanity; Paralyzed Veterans; PETA. (I made about $36,000 last year and--at least according to my tax return LOL--I contibuted approx. $5000.)
I hope you are kidding about PETA. Give to your local animal shelter. Sorry, but, I can rant to just like you can
you need not have called this person small minded but since you did, people who accept aberrant behavior as norm......you are not playing with a full deck.
No I'm not! Never said I was, but, I'm still open minded at least
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
4,375 posts, read 4,068,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Vogel
Well, kudos to you my friend for selflessly giving your hard-earned dollars to a cause you truly believe in.
However, I will have to respectfully decline your suggestion that I too contribute. I am afraid that this organization is of the mission to encourage people like Mickey, and I simply, personally disagree with that. I am not saying you are right or wrong--it is just that we have different beliefs on such matters and also as to business owner's rights.
Well, that wasn't clear from your original post.
Quote:
For example, I am of the opinion than a business owner has the right to hire anyone he pleases. If he does not like gays or hippies or rednecks, it is his right--his money, after all!--to hire and not hire whom he pleases.
The problem is that in many cases all business will be doing the same thing. And then where are gay people to work? Just like the south prior to the Civil Rights Movement; if you give people the ability to discriminate, they will use it. So the law has to say they can't.
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Charities I contribute to: Habitat for Humanity; Paralyzed Veterans; PETA. (I made about $36,000 last year and--at least according to my tax return LOL--I contibuted approx. $5000.)
What if a business doesn't want to hire a disabled veteran? According to what you said above that should be allowed.
This is interesting... a guy in lipstick and a dress is a tranny, but a woman with a pair of socks in her BVD;s and a Mike's Hard Lemonade lunchbox is... not necessarily thinking that she is on the TG spectrum. Are you comfortable accepting this kind of... sexism.. on its face?
I'm inclined to agree with scratchie that you're making some assumptions that are outrageous at best, stereotypical at worst.
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You only help make the o.p.'s point if you believe that there is a limit to how much femininity is allowed a man before he is 'crossing over' but allow women who have done everything short of surgery to become men to still think of themselves as women.
I've encountered a number of domme/butch women whom I believe have no intention of getting a sex change.
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My question remains, what is with all the cross behavior inherent in same sex attraction about anyway?! I mean... if you are a woman and you like women... why on earth go for women that look, sound and act exactly like John Goodman??? I mean... a guy who has no luck getting women could pretend to be a woman who has had a particularly successful FtM transition and BAM, money for nothing... chicks (lesbian chicks) for free! I'm not proud, I'd work that angle if things ever got desperate. What am I missing? Or is all this just too confusing?
As a straight guy, I don't pretend to know what a gay woman finds attractive about a "soft" or "hard" domme woman. But I think I know enough to say that they're not looking for a man. You might be trying to be funny or outlandish on purpose but I doubt that most of them compare favorably to John Goodman. Perhaps closer to the SNL impersonation of Justin Bieber?
There are drag kings and queens but I believe the people who indulge in those characters separate it from real life.
In any event, I see the OP's question as incongruent since IMO a masculine-dressing woman - gay or not - is not necessarily in the process of becoming transgendered. If a man is dressing in full traditionally female attire during work hours, however, I would say odds are high that he is transitioning.
Last edited by FindingZen; 02-26-2015 at 07:39 AM..
You object to Mickey being visibly butch and flaunting her sexuality, yet believe cheesecake calendars belong at the workplace. Do you honestly not see the cognitive dissonance here?
No I do not see the dissonance. (actually the term "double standard" or "dichotomy" would be more accurate, but I see neither of those either.)
I simply opined that a cheesecake calendar could be accepted in a male-dominate blue collar atmosphere. Well, they are and I have seen them. What dissonance? it is a fact. Guys working in places like auto repair garages and machine shops occasionally put-up calendars with hot scantily clad women on them. And that's called appropriate--if perhaps a bit crude. But hey, remember the environment; we ain't talking about your stockbroker's or doctor's office.
Whereas a Mickey is in an atmosphere filled with professional male and females, 95% of whom are most likely heterosexual and abide by societal norms when it comes to dress and actions. Yes--a Mickey has every right to sleep with women if that's her bag, but it is inappropriate to make sure anyone who sees her knows this. Make no mistake: Mickey leaves absolutely NO room for doubt as to her sexual preferences.
A cheesecake calendar also is abiding by societal norms, i.e. straight men coveting pretty women.
Lastly: You asked what the HR folks said when I reported Mickey? Where did you get that idea? I never reported her nor would I ever. Well, except to you guys! LOL.
Yes--a Mickey has every right to sleep with women if that's her bag, but it is inappropriate to make sure anyone who sees her knows this. Make no mistake: Mickey leaves absolutely NO room for doubt as to her sexual preferences.
First of all, you're making assumptions. There are actually straight women who dress in the same style (mullet haircut, manly clothes, etc.).
Second of all, why is it not acceptable for Mickey to dress in a way that (apparently) expresses her sexuality? Is it also unacceptable for straight women to wear dresses and makeup? Is it unacceptable for straight men to dress in a stereotypically "heterosexual" manner?
I am not kidding about PETA. I gave them $800 last year.
Why don't you like them?
This gave me a bad case of the !!! too...the best way to put it is, go Google some articles about their "animal shelter" in Virginia. They are the opposite of what they'd like you to think they are. Unless of course the theft and murder of pets is what you are wanting to support. They're bad, bad news. Donate to local animal rescues or orgs that do real good work if you love animals, conservation programs, sanctuaries, they all need money.
But not to go too far OT here, the bottom line is either she's violating the dress code or she isn't. A woman doesn't need to dress in feminine attire unless the dress code says she has to. Some, in some workplaces, actually do. Dress code is not covered by discrimination/anti-discrimination codes. After all, in some workplaces there are standards like uniforms. An employer has the right to determine dress code and to tie it to gender if they want. After all, women in the military are even allowed more leeway with their hairstyles than men are. Is that a double-standard? Maybe, but it's the employer's rules and their right to make them. Frankly, I think that if the standard at the workplace is khakis and collared shirts, she's got no business wearing work boots and wallet chains or whatever, she should uphold the standard that the men have to meet. I don't think that using Skoal should be permitted in a professional setting unless you're some kind of very blue collar worker. I don't think offensive tattoos should be allowed to be visible on anyone. I always say, when in doubt, flip the coin. Is she doing things that NO ONE should be permitted to do, or would the things she's doing be OK if a straight man did them? Working out the answer to this question will show you whether you're disgusted at her getting away with things she shouldn't be able to really....or if you just don't like it because it violates gender standard norms that you think should be upheld universally.
Here's another question...do you think that men SHOULD be able to dress in female attire in a professional workplace (assuming it's done tastefully) or do you think that men should have to dress like men and women should have to dress like women? In complaining about a double standard, you are indicating that you want fairness, and I'm curious which direction of fairness you would prefer if it were up to you. Not judging, just asking the question.
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