Child Support Reform (men AREN'T ATM'S) (wage, drug, elect, supporter)
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Here is a thought: If you are concerned with where the money is going, then either get married to the woman you created a child with or maybe move in with her. Child support is for food, clothing, shelter. It is not for extras. People are going to complain that the woman had her nails done. Just wondering what the dad is spending his money on that could have went toward the child. It does work both ways.
On top of child support you can also buy toys, books, entertainment, team sports, and other things.
The majority of women that are raising kids without the benefit of the dad are hurting financially. As a man that created a child with someone else that man that chooses not to spend any time with the child should pay child support and maybe get a second job to make sure that the woman can stay home and take care of the child.
I agree that a man’s DNA is part of the child, therefore, he should pay but how about this “It’s my DNA, therefore, you shouldn’t kill (abort) OUR baby”? How about men who want to be a father but the mother wants to be a deadbeat and kill the baby instead? I don't see how a woman being a deadbeat and walking away from the responsibility by killing the baby it is applauded but a guy who doesn't want to pay is seen as a terrible monster.
I agree that a man’s DNA is part of the child, therefore, he should pay but how about this “It’s my DNA, therefore, you shouldn’t kill (abort) OUR baby”? How about men who want to be a father but the mother wants to be a deadbeat and kill the baby instead? I don't see how a woman being a deadbeat and walking away from the responsibility by killing the baby it is applauded but a guy who doesn't want to pay is seen as a terrible monster.
How do you suggest society deals with the fact that the pregnancy is occurring in the WOMAN's body? I mean, I get what you're questioning: if the woman wants to have the baby, then she gets to do that and the sperm-donor/father is required to pay child support; if the woman doesn't want the baby, SHE alone can decide to have an abortion. I don't see any way around that, so long as abortion is legal. Would you suggest that she be forced to carry the baby to term unless sperm-donor consents to an abortion?
Ask yourself this - are your children fed? Do they have a roof over their heads? Beds to sleep in? School supplies? Then why are you complaining.
Ask yourself these questions too - for the $100-400/mo you are paying for child support, if you added that back into YOUR budget, would it be sufficient to pay for the extra expense of another child in your household? Cracks me up.
When my cousin had custody of her son, the $400/mo her ex was supposed to pay was too little. Her ex thought it was an outrageous amount. 4 years of court battles, where only the lawyers got rich, custody changed hands. Suddenly, my cousin thought the $200 she was ordered to pay each month was ridiculous. The $200 he received? Well, he continued the battle - arguing that he his monthly costs went up by $800/mo with the addition of another household member.
In my opinion, they are both horrible, greedy parents. They spent his childhood fighting over money. He then knocked up a girl at 16, another when he was 18 - doesn't pay a dime for either because their moms are "just greedy". Worthless breeds worthless. Most people who have these disputes should never have had kids together in the first place. Divorce is not a problem - people focusing on weddings and "love" are.
Before getting married, people need to TALK. People need to be HONEST. When I suggest those things to engaged couples, they roll their eyes... how ridiculous I am. How sad that I don't understand that their love is special and things will "just work out"...
People make me sick. Wish they'd stop reproducing. Period
Location: Free State of Florida, Support our police
5,861 posts, read 3,300,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cam1957
And you, sir, are in the minority and I admire you and every other man that loves their children and fights for the best interest of the children. I know there's good men out there like you and I'm assuming that YOU are doing the child rearing and loving your child/children as they should be loved.
There are groups for Father's Rights. The sad thing is, is that men like the OP would think of killing his kids and ex instead of being a responsible father and fighting for his kids and raising them in a loving environment.
I don't think every woman here is agreeing that some women don't scam the system, because we know they do. Those of us that have been good parents know that the love you give to a child outweighs anything money can buy, but you yourself know it costs money to house, feed, and clothe children along with any activities they get involved in.
Do you get child support and do you think you're being screwed?
Ok I will give you my story. My son was two years old when I was getting divorced from my ex wife. Initially my ex wife was making false allegations to the police department about me to get me in trouble with my job. So I moved out of the house. I stayed with my parents. It was pretty humiliating but I was broke. The judge gave her temporary custody of my son and I was ordered to pay child support. I was paying 17 years ago about 1k a month. I was also ordered to pay 75% of the household bills and I was paying a lawyer. I literally did not have a penny to my name. If it wasn't for my parents I would have been homeless. The law guardian made up a schedule where her and I split visitation of my son 50/50. We went to the court appointed psychiatrist and he said after all the extensive interviews that my son would be better off staying with me. The judge at that point dropped the child support requirement on me. Now mind you the whole time I was paying support I was also supporting the household and at my parents I was paying for his clothing and any other expense that was incurred during child rearing. Finally after going to court for another two years she gave up and I received custody. However the settlement was that I would receive custody however I would not get child support. So 7 years later my ex wife decides that she wants to go back for custody. She had married a multi millionaire who was bank rolling her. Anyway she took me to court and I had to go through the process all over again. At that point I asked for child support. Anyway after another two year battle she realized she was not going to win and she actually had to settle. She lost some of her visitation and she also agreed to pay $600 a month in child support. As god as my witness every dime she paid went directly to my sons activities. $600 a month didn't even come close to what it took to raise him. So I understand the frustration of some women who have an ex that doesn't pay or pays very little. I love my son very much and I was and still to this day play a very active role in his life. I went to all the practices. I read all the bed time stories. I washed him. I changed diapers. I fed him everyday. I did everything a parent should do. Certainly I don't deserve an award for doing what is necessary and right. Then the story ends like this. My son has achieved great things. He ended up being a HS national champion in wrestling. He graduated a difficult catholic school with a 95% average. He ended up doing great on his SAT's. So he ends up getting into one of the military academies. In the military academy you get paid. Its enough for you to buy your food and uniforms. By the time you are done with expenses you get around $100 a month. The day my son left for the Academy my ex filled paperwork to emancipate him. So now she pays no child support. However I still send him several thousand a year just to make sure he has everything he needs. So yes I received child support for a few years. It never covered all of his expenses. It wasn't even close to what he needed. So as a father I also feel for women that are in the same situation. Being a parent was the most rewarding thing I have ever done in my life. If I was to die tomorrow I would be comforted by the fact that my son is a success story and there are many chapters in his life that will be filled with great things. Not every man is a deadbeat. Many men want to take a very active role in the upbringing of their children. There are problems with the courts as it pertains to mens rights. Those problems are not addressed and their needs to have reform. Unfortunately there has been very little reform and many men and their children are the real losers.
Why is it that women have 2 choices when it comes to pregnancy and men only get 1?
They both have a choice to have sex, but because it's "her body", she has a choice to keep the baby or not. Shouldn't the male have the choice to pay child support or not? That would sure eliminate a lot of excessive population in this country, if no monetary award is given to women.
What about accountability? shouldn't vouchers be provided instead of checks? I want some accounting of where my money is going, and not to "nails and hair did".
I love how the feminist put men in jail for not paying, yeah that makes a lot of sense! now he gets fired because of being in jail, or doesn't stand a chance of getting a job because there is a gap on the resume from "doing time" because he couldn't afford the rapeage that the male hating courts handed down. How are you ever suppose to get ahead to pay the support under these conditions?
No wonder so many men whack their (ex) wife and kids!
The man has a VERY important choice, too:to let it out, OR TO KEEP IT IN HIS PANTS
There is NO excusing the MAN in the equation.
IF he chose to "do the deed" he should be prepared to pay up. Simple as that.
~Now, where I draw the line is this: IF we allow a DNA test to PROVE paternity,and thusly make the man pay, then WE NEED THE COURTS TO ALLOW an "excluded father" from NOT having to pay child support for a kid that is NOT his.
~I DO agree that a court needs to make it reasonable that he could afford. If he makes $20k a year and they stayed together, part of that $20k would have been spent on the child, granted, but not to order him to pay $30K in support! It does happen.
~AND I DO agree on ACCOUNTABILITY. Mothers should have to provide receipts for some of the children's goods and services they supposedly spend child support on, ESPECIALLY if she ALSO GETS Public Assistance support!
How do you suggest society deals with the fact that the pregnancy is occurring in the WOMAN's body? I mean, I get what you're questioning: if the woman wants to have the baby, then she gets to do that and the sperm-donor/father is required to pay child support; if the woman doesn't want the baby, SHE alone can decide to have an abortion. I don't see any way around that, so long as abortion is legal. Would you suggest that she be forced to carry the baby to term unless sperm-donor consents to an abortion?
I suggest the same opportunity for both, equality in things like this too. It sounds totally fair if BOTH have an opinion as BOTH were involved, BOTH are part of the result (baby), why should only one side get to decide to walk away from responsibility or make one be responsible? It seems only the father is expected to be responsible and if not he could be thrown in jail and has no options to walk away from responsibility as the mother. I wonder what could be done to truly see equality in cases like this and something fair for both sides and the child of course (most important).
The man has a VERY important choice, too:to let it out, OR TO KEEP IT IN HIS PANTS
There is NO excusing the MAN in the equation.
IF he chose to "do the deed" he should be prepared to pay up. Simple as that.
~Now, where I draw the line is this: IF we allow a DNA test to PROVE paternity,and thusly make the man pay, then WE NEED THE COURTS TO ALLOW an "excluded father" from NOT having to pay child support for a kid that is NOT his.
~I DO agree that a court needs to make it reasonable that he could afford. If he makes $20k a year and they stayed together, part of that $20k would have been spent on the child, granted, but not to order him to pay $30K in support! It does happen.
~AND I DO agree on ACCOUNTABILITY. Mothers should have to provide receipts for some of the children's goods and services they supposedly spend child support on, ESPECIALLY if she ALSO GETS Public Assistance support!
I've seen this stance said a few times through this thread, but other than in situations of rape, isn't the same also true for the woman? Doesn't she have the choice to just "keep her pants on?" You can't say that the man is the only one responsible because it took them both to make this child.
That said, there is no denying that women have a choice that men do not have since only the woman is given the choice to have an abortion. Similarly, I think in a situation where one person wanted to put the child up for adoption and the other didn't, the parent choosing to keep the child would likely get child support(regardless of man vs woman).
The sad reality is that in a situation like this, not everyone gets what they want. This type of problem has existed throughout history going all the way back to the story of King Solomon offering to cut the baby in half. You'll never get 50/50 equality here.
Forcing a mother to raise a child with no support isn't fair.
Forcing her to have an abortion because the guy doesn't want it isn't fair.
Forcing her to carry it when she doesn't want it isn't fair.
And letting the woman be the only one to choose isn't fair.
The only thing that can be done is attempt to allow rational heads to prevail and avoid absolute rules. Trying to take into account all sides is what makes family law situations one of the most complicated legal matters because there is rarely a "right" answer and it usually isn't "fair" to everyone. Unfortunately, someone will have to lose in situations like these.
The man has a VERY important choice, too:to let it out, OR TO KEEP IT IN HIS PANTS
There is NO excusing the MAN in the equation.
IF he chose to "do the deed" he should be prepared to pay up. Simple as that.
And if he did the deed and wants to be responsible and also be a father but the mother doesn't, then, too bad tough luck?
Quote:
~I DO agree that a court needs to make it reasonable that he could afford. If he makes $20k a year and they stayed together, part of that $20k would have been spent on the child, granted, but not to order him to pay $30K in support! It does happen
Or women who hit the lottery by getting pregnant by a rich guy and request crazy amounts of money every month "for the child".
Quote:
~AND I DO agree on ACCOUNTABILITY. Mothers should have to provide receipts for some of the children's goods and services they supposedly spend child support on, ESPECIALLY if she ALSO GETS Public Assistance support!
I wonder why this hasn't been done. Fair for everybody. Father has to pay or go to jail, mother has to spend it all ON THE CHILD if not she goes to jail.
Ok I will give you my story. My son was two years old when I was getting divorced from my ex wife. Initially my ex wife was making false allegations to the police department about me to get me in trouble with my job. So I moved out of the house. I stayed with my parents. It was pretty humiliating but I was broke. The judge gave her temporary custody of my son and I was ordered to pay child support. I was paying 17 years ago about 1k a month. I was also ordered to pay 75% of the household bills and I was paying a lawyer. I literally did not have a penny to my name. If it wasn't for my parents I would have been homeless. The law guardian made up a schedule where her and I split visitation of my son 50/50. We went to the court appointed psychiatrist and he said after all the extensive interviews that my son would be better off staying with me. The judge at that point dropped the child support requirement on me. Now mind you the whole time I was paying support I was also supporting the household and at my parents I was paying for his clothing and any other expense that was incurred during child rearing. Finally after going to court for another two years she gave up and I received custody. However the settlement was that I would receive custody however I would not get child support. So 7 years later my ex wife decides that she wants to go back for custody. She had married a multi millionaire who was bank rolling her. Anyway she took me to court and I had to go through the process all over again. At that point I asked for child support. Anyway after another two year battle she realized she was not going to win and she actually had to settle. She lost some of her visitation and she also agreed to pay $600 a month in child support. As god as my witness every dime she paid went directly to my sons activities. $600 a month didn't even come close to what it took to raise him. So I understand the frustration of some women who have an ex that doesn't pay or pays very little. I love my son very much and I was and still to this day play a very active role in his life. I went to all the practices. I read all the bed time stories. I washed him. I changed diapers. I fed him everyday. I did everything a parent should do. Certainly I don't deserve an award for doing what is necessary and right. Then the story ends like this. My son has achieved great things. He ended up being a HS national champion in wrestling. He graduated a difficult catholic school with a 95% average. He ended up doing great on his SAT's. So he ends up getting into one of the military academies. In the military academy you get paid. Its enough for you to buy your food and uniforms. By the time you are done with expenses you get around $100 a month. The day my son left for the Academy my ex filled paperwork to emancipate him. So now she pays no child support. However I still send him several thousand a year just to make sure he has everything he needs. So yes I received child support for a few years. It never covered all of his expenses. It wasn't even close to what he needed. So as a father I also feel for women that are in the same situation. Being a parent was the most rewarding thing I have ever done in my life. If I was to die tomorrow I would be comforted by the fact that my son is a success story and there are many chapters in his life that will be filled with great things. Not every man is a deadbeat. Many men want to take a very active role in the upbringing of their children. There are problems with the courts as it pertains to mens rights. Those problems are not addressed and their needs to have reform. Unfortunately there has been very little reform and many men and their children are the real losers.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. I applaud you on doing such a fine job raising your son and giving him the loving and supporting environment every child deserves, even if only at the hands of one good parent. I'm sure the effects of not having a good mother will haunt him the rest of his days, but I'm sure he's thankful to have such a good Dad.
I'm hoping that by you sharing your story, that the men that hate women and think all women screw men on child support are able to see that there's Father's out there that do take custody of their children and also get screwed on child support. Usually those that mouth off about that issue have no idea what raising, loving and supporting a child entails.
I'm sorry that you had to go through so much, but those of us that love our children will do anything for them. I can feel the pride in your words for your son and I commend you.
I wish there were more Fathers like you that put your childs' best interest first and remove them from the women that really shouldn't have children.
I'm not taking sides because my ex was a terrible father and did much emotional damage to my sons in his lack of parenting and involvement in their lives.
I'm just saying that these kids don't ask to be born and there's too many people that shouldn't have kids.
I hope that some day things are more balanced and fair when it comes to the welfare of children.
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