Are anti-vaxxers liable if their children spread preventable diseases? (advantages, mortality, documents)
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Worldwide the average duration of breastfeeding is 4.2 years. The average duration in the US is 3 months. By 6 months only 13% of US mothers are still nursing. A mother who is tandem nursing will still be able to provide all of the benefits of breast milk to her newborn including colostrum and antibodies.
One of the most amazing things about breastfeeding is that not only can the mother pass antibodies to her baby for illnesses that she had but the baby can pass germs to the mom via feeding for something that mom has not had or does not have antibodies for and mom's body will respond by making antibodies and passing them back to the baby. LLLI | FAQ: Can breastfeeding prevent illnesses?
Breast feeding is helpful in conferring immunity to a newborn child. That's hardly news.
However, it doesn't compare to immunization. Immunization is, by far, the most effective way to prevent contagious disease no matter how much anti-vaxxers deny it. Also, not all mothers can breast feed.
There is a factor you are leaving out here concerning material antibodies. Breastfeeding. The infant will continue to receive her antibodies through her milk, unless of course she formula feeds instead. What is the average duration of breastfeeding? 3 months? 6 months? What about a 2 year old still nursing? Do the antibodies in mother's milk stop after a certain duration of time also? If yes, then a mother tandem nursing a newborn and a toddler should have no antibodies at all left?
What markg said. Plus, breast feeding mainly imparts antibodies to GI diseases. See this: Passive Immunity 101: Will Breast Milk Protect My Baby From Getting Sick? | The Scientific Parent "... the IgA antibodies in milk and colostrum protect against infection by working inside the baby’s gastrointestinal tract, a clear protective role of human milk, which you can read more about here. These IgA antibodies penetrate and protect the mucous membranes in the baby’s mouth, airway, throat, and intestines.This passive breastfeeding IgA immunity continues until a baby is weaned."
My allowable three sentences. Read the article. Lots of good information there.
So how would you sue someone who can't take the shot, but gets the disease? Plus, what if the people who did vaccinate get the disease and pass it along to your kids. They DID what they were supposed to.
So how now brown cow?
Pretty straight forward...someone who does what they need to do by getting vaccinated or has a medically accepted reason for NOT getting vaccinated wouldn't be sued if they got the disease and infected someone else. Vaccines can be effective at LIMITING the spread of disease but nothing is 100%. OTOH, if you did NOT get vaccinated, got the disease and then infected someone else, then they could be sued...at least in civil court for damages.
I know this is OT, but this just came over my email, and I had to share. I subscribe to a newsletter that gives links to articles about vaccines once a week.
I don't understand how they can say it was the first measles death in 12 years. The CDC lists two measles deaths in 2009 and two more in 2010. They reported another death in 2005.
The study doesn't compare a 100% vaccinated population to a 100% unvaccinated population. For example, one group of mothers had a 51% vaccination rate for measles and the other had a 12% vaccination rate for measles. The study averaged the results which doesn't let us know the true results of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Even with the average though, the babies born to the lesser vaccinated (natural immunity) group of mothers had an additional 2 months of protection then those born the more vaccinated group. The authors of the study conclude that they expect with increased vaccination that the duration of protection from maternal antibodies will continue to decrease. It would be interesting to see 100% vs 0% to find the whole truth regarding this. Regardless, the additional two months of protection is significant and does not support your statement that "there is no difference".
Infecting all women with life threatening illness just to extend maternal antibodies by a few weeks is morally repugnant. How many women are you willing to kill or cripple to achieve your goals?
Pretty straight forward...someone who does what they need to do by getting vaccinated or has a medically accepted reason for NOT getting vaccinated wouldn't be sued if they got the disease and infected someone else. Vaccines can be effective at LIMITING the spread of disease but nothing is 100%. OTOH, if you did NOT get vaccinated, got the disease and then infected someone else, then they could be sued...at least in civil court for damages.
As you said, nothing is 100%. Some adults from the Disney (two employees) Measles were vaccinated in childhood. NYC "Measles Mary", who went to a foreign country, was fully vaccinated and spread it all around her not knowing she even had measles. Nothing you can do about these people, unless, of course, you want blood titers (not simply vaccination records) coming back in the country, and all boosters periodically through a person's lifetime. I read one site which was telling adults to go get a MMR again, or have titer done to "make sure".
You cannot police other countries and their vaccination programs. You cannot guarantee anything; whether these vaccinations worked at all, or have waned over time. Pertussis is the perfect example of the latter. Adults (teens included), who were vaccinated in childhood, may come down with it (travelling?). be walking around with just a mild cough, and never go to a doctor to be treated at all. That will never happen? It goes away on it's own. How are you going to sue them if neither they, nor a doctor, knew they had it? How do you require someone over the age of 18 to go to a doctor for a cough? I read one report that this may be happening more than anyone even knows.
It's not a perfect world and never will be, as much as some you want it to try to make it so.
I don't understand how they can say it was the first measles death in 12 years. The CDC lists two measles deaths in 2009 and two more in 2010. They reported another death in 2005.
There is a factor you are leaving out here concerning material antibodies. Breastfeeding. The infant will continue to receive her antibodies through her milk, unless of course she formula feeds instead. What is the average duration of breastfeeding? 3 months? 6 months? What about a 2 year old still nursing? Do the antibodies in mother's milk stop after a certain duration of time also? If yes, then a mother tandem nursing a newborn and a toddler should have no antibodies at all left?
Maternal antibodies are primarily passed through the colostrum before the pancreas kicks in and starts denaturing proteins. Preferably, colostrum is the baby's only food for the first 72 hours. After that, the supply is exhausted and it wouldn't be effective anyway, because the pancreatic secretions destroy the antibodies. It's a little more complex than that, since the small intestine activates the proteases, but the bottom line is that if the child doesn't get maternal antibodies immediately after birth it won't be protected.
Colostrum is generated when the mammary glands strip immune globulin out of the mother's bloodstream. This provides some protection against varying levels of every immune system challenge the mother has ever faced. The protection is not perfect, about as effective as breast feeding as a means of birth control. The globulin is denatured when the child's digestive tract starts to work. I have heard it said that the immune factors also sensitize the child's own immune system to invading pathogens, but I don't know if that is true.
As you said, nothing is 100%. Some adults from the Disney (two employees) Measles were vaccinated in childhood. NYC "Measles Mary", who went to a foreign country, was fully vaccinated and spread it all around her not knowing she even had measles. Nothing you can do about these people, unless, of course, you want blood titers (not simply vaccination records) coming back in the country, and all boosters periodically through a person's lifetime. I read one site which was telling adults to go get a MMR again, or have titer done to "make sure".
You cannot police other countries and their vaccination programs. You cannot guarantee anything; whether these vaccinations worked at all, or have waned over time. Pertussis is the perfect example of the latter. Adults (teens included), who were vaccinated in childhood, may come down with it (travelling?). be walking around with just a mild cough, and never go to a doctor to be treated at all. That will never happen? It goes away on it's own. How are you going to sue them if neither they, nor a doctor, knew they had it? How do you require someone over the age of 18 to go to a doctor for a cough? I read one report that this may be happening more than anyone even knows.
It's not a perfect world and never will be, as much as some you want it to try to make it so.
I don't know where you read your article; you should always check information like that against a reliable source such as the CDC, Mayo Clinic, etc. The last I checked, the CDC did not recommend titers and said for adults not working in health care, proof of one dose of measles vaccine is sufficient to consider oneself protected.
I've never heard of the case you're talking about with this "Measles Mary". Somehow, I suspect, that, like the old game of telephone, details got changed as the story was re-told. Here's the case: A Fully Vaccinated Woman Contracted And Then Spread the Measles | Smart News | Smithsonian "Ultimately, she transmitted the measles to four other people, according to a recent report in Clinical Infectious Diseases that tracked symptoms in the 88 people with whom “Measles Mary” interacted while she was sick." Four people, no trip to Europe. This was the first case of a fully vaccinated person ever transmitting measles.
Instead of focusing on these statistical outliers, focus on doing what you can to protect yourself.
Infecting all women with life threatening illness just to extend maternal antibodies by a few weeks is morally repugnant. How many women are you willing to kill or cripple to achieve your goals?
People used to get these childhood illnesses in childhood, many of which conferred lifetime immunity. Vaccines on the other hand do not offer the same lifetime immunity nor do they allow for mothers to pass on the same level of antibodies to protect their babies during their earliest most vulnerable months.
Breastfeeding babies can and do still get sick even with the antibodies if exposed but they then have the benefit of a milder illness. People should have the right to chose to vaccinate, breastfeed or both.
Breastfeeding is not well supported in our culture even with the numerous health benefits including benefits to society as a whole in terms of saving healthcare dollars down the road. In fact many mothers who breastfeed are judged harshly and called Nazi's if they even dare say anything positive about breastfeeding.
I never said anything about exposing adult women to vpd but the vaccine does make it more likely that when and if people get vpd they will now get them as adults rather then as children due to the lack of guarantee of long term or lifetime immunity of vaccines vs natural immunity. Childhood measles, childhood chicken pox is much less risky then adult measles and adult chicken pox.
Another excellent article regarding the benefits of breastfeeding to overall health in so many ways. And yes the benefits persist long after the colostrum is gone. http://www.llli.org/nb/nbiss3-09p28.html
Quote:
While each antibody is specifically designed to target one particular pathogen, the major milk protein lactoferrin acts more broadly. It can directly kill bacteria, viruses, and fungi, and it also has an anti-inflammatory effect, which helps reduce the pain, swelling, and high temperature associated with infection. Because lactoferrin is quite resistant to digestion, it passes into the urine relatively unchanged and so helps prevent urinary tract infections. Lactoferrin also helps to encourage the growth of friendly bacteria in the infant's gut. Human milk contains particularly high levels of lactoferrin and, significantly, human lactoferrin is distinct from that found in the milk of other species.
Too much more to quote so I encourage people to read it.
Last edited by MissTerri; 04-23-2016 at 11:36 AM..
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