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Part of the problem, a big part, is that people don't trust the government. The CDC is part of the government. I wouldn't put the whole blame on them, that's for sure. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can give people the correct information, but there are many who think they know far more than these eminent, educated scientists who've spent whole careers studying vaccines.
That's a big part of the reason why vaccinations need to be legally mandatory. Not just because of those who disagree, but especially because of those sitting on the fence, undecided whether it's a good idea overall to get vaccinations. If it were legally required, those sitting on the fence would easily comply, and those who disagree would mostly comply to not be criminals. We would reduce the overall rate of noncompliance drastically.
That's a big part of the reason why vaccinations need to be legally mandatory. Not just because of those who disagree, but especially because of those sitting on the fence, undecided whether it's a good idea overall to get vaccinations. If it were legally required, those sitting on the fence would easily comply, and those who disagree would mostly comply to not be criminals. We would reduce the overall rate of noncompliance drastically.
Actually, just making exemptions harder to get increases the compliance rate.
That's a big part of the reason why vaccinations need to be legally mandatory. Not just because of those who disagree, but especially because of those sitting on the fence, undecided whether it's a good idea overall to get vaccinations. If it were legally required, those sitting on the fence would easily comply, and those who disagree would mostly comply to not be criminals. We would reduce the overall rate of noncompliance drastically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Actually, just making exemptions harder to get increases the compliance rate.
Perhaps we should offer tax incentives to people who vaccinate. My suspicion is that it would not have to be very large to encourage some parents to do it. It would probably save taxpayers money in the long run.
Another thought is to require those who do not vaccinate to show evidence of a liability insurance policy with enough coverage to pay for harm done to others by not vaccinating and to pay the costs of controlling outbreaks they start.
Perhaps we should offer tax incentives to people who vaccinate. My suspicion is that it would not have to be very large to encourage some parents to do it. It would probably save taxpayers money in the long run.
Another thought is to require those who do not vaccinate to show evidence of a liability insurance policy with enough coverage to pay for harm done to others by not vaccinating and to pay the costs of controlling outbreaks they start.
I'm definitely onboard with the bold.
I don't know if we have the legal framework right now for the second. It would not have helped at Disney, where "Patient Zero" could not be identified. We could do like Australia did and disallow the child care credit if the child isn't vaccinated. Money talks.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-24-2016 at 01:14 PM..
People should not be blamed for failure to vaccinate, nor for arguing against vaccination. That's normal behavior for millions of people. The blame lies squarely on the government. It's the government's job, and the whole purpose of government, to protect us from our enemies. Diseases are among our worst enemies. When people fail to get vaccinated, it's because the government is not doing its job. We might as well not have a government, if we're going to let it neglect its main job and reason for existence.
The difficulty here is that people forget the very nature of government in the United States. We have a democratic system of government through which we elect representatives who sit in state legislatures or Congress. My observation is that your legislators rather than making tough choices will try to make everyone who votes happy. People who oppose vaccination have the same vote you do and often are more willing to use it vote against representatives they disagree with. The exemption laws grew out of that fact. In essence, in America, the people are the government. If you want to find a villain, either go look in a mirror, or go look at your neighbors.
I have said before that the biggest problem with vaccination and public health in general is that it has been too successful. We have practically eliminated epidemic disease and now the generation which is raising children (who need vaccination) have no comprehension of what polio, measles, diptheria, and whooping cough are like. My wife in her many public health jobs has to deal with these young parents and its a very trying thing for her. They have no experience with these diseases and so the only reality for them are rumors, innuendo, and hysteria that is spread by the anti-vaccination movement.
The only thing I really fault government or public health officers for is failing to properly educate people how horrible these diseases really were. I think you could justify a budget just to go around to schools, churches, and service organizations and talk about these diseases and the change that vaccines have brought. However, public health dollars are limited--and constantly being cut. Ultimately, we have to choose between education and actually doing the job of vaccination. The job takes precedence over education.
Vote in legislators who will repeal the laws which allow personal and religious exemptions from vaccination, so that your health department can do its job. That's the beginning of the solution to this problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
I'm definitely onboard with the bold.
I don't know if we have the legal framework right now for the second. It would not have helped at Disney, where "Patient Zero" could not be identified. We could do like Australia did and disallow the child care credit if the child isn't vaccinated. Money talks.
Some kind of incentive for vaccinating kids would be nice. Its a shame we have to do that. Ignorance simply abounds in this world.
Different things have been contemplated here to raise vaccination levels. I know one local health department that charges for a certificate exempting kids from vaccination. Another requires those seeking such an exemption to arrive on a particular day at a particular place at a particular time if they want an exemption. Than they have to watch a movie explaining vaccination before they can receive the certificate. This cuts down on exemptions to some degree.
Last edited by markg91359; 04-24-2016 at 01:51 PM..
If a person doesn't trust doctors (do ALL Americans have their own primary care provider?), they aren't going to trust what doctors tell them to do. It goes beyond vaccinations. Read the article.
Under the ACA, all Preventive Care is FREE. "Shots" are high on the list under the ACA Preventive Care, yet the rates for all preventive care is extremely low.
Carrot versus stick? Flu shots are the perfect example. FREE. "Get your Flu Shot and get a FREE Turkey, or 10% discount on your groceries". Have those incentives increased vaccination rates???? Nope. Incentives? Pay them $$$$ to get their vaccinations? You know that government is not going to do that one. Health Insurance Premiums are going through the roof. Think the insurance companies are going to decrease rates for fully compliant to vaccinations?
You do know you have another divide. Parents who do fully vaccinate their own children, but do not vaccinate themselves. I am elderly and have seen all those "deadly" disease you so like to talk about. My own children were fully vaccinated according to the 1980 schedule. Me get any vaccination even then? Get lost.
Would you consider my daughter and SIL anti-vaxxers? They fully vaccinate their own children but believe in CHOICE for others; children, AND especially adults. While their children have gotten Flu Shots and Dtap, they themselves refuse them. They don't KNOW? They have heard it many times, but feel that if their children are fully vaccinated that should protect them. They also feel that medicine cannot tell an ADULT what to do for themselves. If I were to tell my daughter and SIL, what you medical professionals are saying on here, that probably would be enough to send them over the edge. "If I am vaccinating my own children, isn't that enough if vaccinations WORK?" "Why do we adults have to have the same Flu or Tdap vaccinations, if our kids one's are supposed to protect them?". I am not going to tell them your mantra or promote your push.
"If I am vaccinating my own children, isn't that enough if vaccinations WORK?" "Why do we adults have to have the same Flu or Tdap vaccinations, if our kids one's are supposed to protect them?". I am not going to tell them your mantra or promote your push.
Once again:
Vaccines do not work 100% of the time.
Vaccinating adults and adolescents against whooping cough protects the person getting the vaccine but also reduces the risk to infants too young to be vaccinated.
Vaccinating everyone in the family against flu protects the vaccinated person (yes, flu vaccine is not as effective as most other vaccines) and infants too young to be vaccinated.
Vaccinating pregnant women against flu and whooping cough provides temporary protection from those diseases for the newborn.
Vaccinating all healthy people produces herd immunity that protects those too young to be vaccinated, those who cannot be vaccinated, those whose immune systems are not working properly, and those for whom the vaccine does not work (a small fraction of those who take vaccines.)
From this point forward, if anyone posts the "If I am vaccinating my own children, isn't that enough if vaccinations WORK?" question again, I will observe that doing so either means one is unable to understand fairly simple infectious disease concepts or is being deliberately obtuse.
If a person doesn't trust doctors (do ALL Americans have their own primary care provider?), they aren't going to trust what doctors tell them to do. It goes beyond vaccinations. Read the article.
Under the ACA, all Preventive Care is FREE. "Shots" are high on the list under the ACA Preventive Care, yet the rates for all preventive care is extremely low.
Carrot versus stick? Flu shots are the perfect example. FREE. "Get your Flu Shot and get a FREE Turkey, or 10% discount on your groceries". Have those incentives increased vaccination rates???? Nope. Incentives? Pay them $$$$ to get their vaccinations? You know that government is not going to do that one. Health Insurance Premiums are going through the roof. Think the insurance companies are going to decrease rates for fully compliant to vaccinations?
You do know you have another divide. Parents who do fully vaccinate their own children, but do not vaccinate themselves. I am elderly and have seen all those "deadly" disease you so like to talk about. My own children were fully vaccinated according to the 1980 schedule. Me get any vaccination even then? Get lost.
Would you consider my daughter and SIL anti-vaxxers? They fully vaccinate their own children but believe in CHOICE for others; children, AND especially adults. While their children have gotten Flu Shots and Dtap, they themselves refuse them. They don't KNOW? They have heard it many times, but feel that if their children are fully vaccinated that should protect them. They also feel that medicine cannot tell an ADULT what to do for themselves. If I were to tell my daughter and SIL, what you medical professionals are saying on here, that probably would be enough to send them over the edge. "If I am vaccinating my own children, isn't that enough if vaccinations WORK?" "Why do we adults have to have the same Flu or Tdap vaccinations, if our kids one's are supposed to protect them?". I am not going to tell them your mantra or promote your push.
Actually, Jo, flu shot coverage continues to go up. Though the increase from 2013-14 to 2014-15 wasn't large, it was an increase. Flu Vaccination Coverage, United States, 2014-15 Influenza Season | FluVaxView | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC Maybe some few do get their flu shot so they can get a turkey, or a 10% discount on their groceries. Why shouldn't insurance companies decrease rates for fully compliant to immunizations? It saves them money.
I am not going to get into it with you about you and your grown children. You say your kids were immunized, so really all they'd need it flu and Tdap (once). If they choose not to get that, to protect themselves and their kids, so be it.
I don't think anyone wants to downplay the vast improvement in public health since 1900. Septic tanks, sewage treatment and chlorinated drinking water have done wonders to extend healthy life for people. Typhoid and typhus are very rare. DDT eliminated malaria from the US by 1951. Refrigeration, freezing and canning have made foods safer and more plentiful. Pasteurized milk and juices have eliminated many diseases. Pasteurization plus herd testing has virtually eliminated bovine tuberculosis, listeria and undulant fever in humans. Vaccinations have made many communicable diseases unknown. My state has closed it's school for the deaf because there are few deaf children any more. Congenital blindness is almost unknown.
We need to stay on top of all our disease prevention techniques, because antibiotics are losing their effectiveness. Deaths from infectious diseases have been reduced to 1% of their previous level. There are people who are convinced they are being poisoned by chlorinated drinking water. Maybe so, but it beats hell out of a case of cholera. There are people who think the same of vaccines, but it beats hell out of the terrible damage VPDs cause, not just in deaths but blindness, deafness, brain damage, sterility and other damage the diseases do.
Vaccinating adults and adolescents against whooping cough protects the person getting the vaccine but also reduces the risk to infants too young to be vaccinated.
Vaccinating everyone in the family against flu protects the vaccinated person (yes, flu vaccine is not as effective as most other vaccines) and infants too young to be vaccinated.
Vaccinating pregnant women against flu and whooping cough provides temporary protection from those diseases for the newborn.
Vaccinating all healthy people produces herd immunity that protects those too young to be vaccinated, those who cannot be vaccinated, those whose immune systems are not working properly, and those for whom the vaccine does not work (a small fraction of those who take vaccines.)
From this point forward, if anyone posts the "If I am vaccinating my own children, isn't that enough if vaccinations WORK?" question again, I will observe that doing so either means one is unable to understand fairly simple infectious disease concepts or is being deliberately obtuse.
That is a not a QUESTION, it is FACT.
This is YOUR problem, Suzy, which you cannot see. It is YOUR big problem with that 35 and under generation, especially for those who DO vaccinate their own children, but do not wish to impose their choices on other parents, themselves, or their own family members and friends. They ARE vaccinating their own children, but do not wish to impose these vaccinations on other parents children, their adult selves, or other adults. You deny these parents exist because they are listening to Jenny McCarthy or Dr. Wakefield ALSO if they are vaccinating their own children but not DEMANDING other do the same?
Your illogical thinking is that every young parent who DOES vaccinate their own children, thinks it should not be the choice of any other parents, or adult, to decide for themselves. I am only trying to educate YOU on who your "anti vaxxers" (sic) are, which you cannot seem to understand.
Maybe you should listen instead of DENYING it exists. Quoting all your science won't help with parents who believe in choice to GET or Refuse vaccinations, and it won't help for those parents who DO vaccinate their own children but believe it should be the right of other parents, or Mom and Dad for themselves, and other adults to refuse.
As a Baby Boomer, I give a hats off to the Millennial Generation (have one out of two children), who are choosing to think for themselves and not wanting to impose their own views on their own Children's Vaccinations on others.
Last edited by Jo48; 04-24-2016 at 05:02 PM..
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