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We already have vaccine mandates for schools. Apparently that is not enough for the pushers. In spite of licenses and liability insurance, death and injuries from car accidents are huge. Let's up the ante and ban them in favor of public transit for everyone. Safety first. Right?
There is no one-shot solution to traffic accidents like there is to contagious diseases. An alternate solution to the vaccine deniers would be to quarantine them all in a "pest hole" and infect them with diseases that they refuse to be vaccinated against. The ones who survive could then be released into society with a clear conscience. We could use the military draft system to induct infectees. Of course, we would have to expand the draft to register females, but that would not be difficult. They could get a deferral just by providing proof of immunization.
"Note that in this database, "compliant" means compliant with either turning in a record or an exemption."
Exemption is the key word in that statement. All but three states in the country have a Religious Exemption. States are not rushing, like California, to eliminate that. What legislation proposed to eliminate that is going nowhere. Freedom of Religion is a very big issue in America, and we can see apart from vaccinations how states are dealing with that one on all religious issues.
I do not think you and others fully understand the divide between the rich and everyone else in America. Money talks. Home school with Private Tutors. Waldorf School? Girl across the street, when my daughters were growing up, went there. The tuition was more than for college. The school won't "wink" and take a Religious Exemption form a parent when they are getting tens of thousands of dollars a year for just one student? Alumni? How much are they donating to the school? Is all this happening with Public School students and their Alumni? Again, Money Talks and will find a way. You can pass laws keeping unvaccinated poor and middle class students out of public schools, but you will have big problems with the Rich, Private Schools, and Home School Tutoring. Do you really think that California's laws are affecting Jenny McCarthy? "Nanny with College Degree for Hire at $100,000 a year". New York Sarcasm, again. Get used to it. You might have a President Trump.
Someone mentioned Prohibition. This is Absurd. Did the Public comply with THAT just because it was the Law of the Land? They found a way to get/make their own booze. How about Adultery Laws? COMPLY because it is the LAW? Hello, Rudy Guilliani? Bad laws that are unenforceable because the General Public will ignore and not comply with them, especially the Wealthy.
Your coercion vaccinations will hurt the poor, not the Rich.
If you wish me to post all the State, and Federal, Vaccination Proposals from 2015 I can do this. You will see that they are not spreading across the country from California, like your "Epidemics".
In most states, the school vaccine laws include the private schools. It is the case in California and also Colorado. Colorado has very lenient exemption laws, but CA does not, any more. The only option for school in CA if you don't vaccinate is home schooling.
Actually, they're not MY epidemics. I am a public health professional and I use that term judiciously.
Apparently, you cannot understand my New York Sarcasm, or read between the lines of it, so I will put it bluntly. You can pass your legislation for childhood vaccinations, but if these vaccinations wane (like Pertussis) you will have to depend on your RECOMMENDATIONS to adults (like pregnant women) to get their boosters. You will not have your Herd Immunity, at least for waning Pertussis vaccination, unless the adult population COOPERATES. Clear what I am saying? Recommend all you want. You will never know if science is the reason they refuse.
You know, I don't know where you get the idea that this is all "MY" idea. (See above as well.)
I didnt read through all 44 pages but we dont vax and i shouldnt be held liable because you put sally set to my susie and assumed anything about her or my parenting choices. YOURE just as liable.
We talk about children, what about adults who dont have vaccines. Do you go around to your co workers asking if they are vaccinated so you dont touch their stapler?
Your reasoning doesn't pass the logic test. The Supreme Court has decided that the government does have the right to mandate vaccines to protect public health.
Most adults have been vaccinated as children, or are old enough to have had the diseases and be immune to most. Though some people on this board like to harp on about adults, in point of fact most adults need only an annual flu shot, a one-time Tdap and a Td every 10 years thereafter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohky0815
because ALL states have some sort of exemption that can offer for non/select vaxers. Its not one size fits all.
Vaccines are not required for school. Thats a myth. You can get an exemption. True for public, private, college, etc.
Exemptions vary from state to state. CA, MS, and W VA allow no exemptions other than medical. Many states make it hard to get an exemption, requiring notarization, watching a video, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell
Fortunately, religious exemptions are only available to the fringe cults of various religions. Mainstream religions embrace vaccinations as a public health measure.
This is very long, if you care to read it, but it speaks to the issue of using an alternative vaccine to one with fetal cell lines if this violates an individual's moral conscience. I suppose a person would have to look at every single ingredient in every vaccine to be aware of this. While this is not the "official" Catholic ruling, it is left up to the individual Catholic. I have spoken to a few Catholics who abhor using aborted fetal cell lines for anything in medicine, be they prevention or to cure diseases (embryo versus adult stem cell debates).
Though not a Religion, per se, there are strict Vegans. Philosophical Objection I suppose? They will not eat or use any animal product. There are no animal products used in vaccines? Eating the flesh of a killed animal or being injected with a serum made from one would not matter. I have a Niece who is a strict Vegan and it would horrify and disgust her. She is an adult now, so the choice is her's, but you don't think a Vegan parent would not think the same for their own children? BTW, my Niece reads the labels on all food products to make sure there are no animal products used in them.
Safety of the science would be irrelevant to both groups of people; fetal cells and animal products. Do not ever say the word "HERD Immunity" to someone like my Niece.
Your reasoning doesn't pass the logic test. The Supreme Court has decided that the government does have the right to mandate vaccines to protect public health.
Most adults have been vaccinated as children, or are old enough to have had the diseases and be immune to most. Though some people on this board like to harp on about adults, in point of fact most adults need only an annual flu shot, a one-time Tdap and a Td every 10 years thereafter.
Exemptions vary from state to state. CA, MS, and W VA allow no exemptions other than medical. Many states make it hard to get an exemption, requiring notarization, watching a video, etc.
Supreme Court may have the right but they cant easily enforce it
So you cant guarantee adults were vaccinated. You just assume they were.
Its not hard to get an exemption. You print the form and sign it. Even Medical in Cal, MS and WV- a dr just needs to sign the form saying its detrimental to their health.
Supreme Court may have the right but they cant easily enforce it
So you cant guarantee adults were vaccinated. You just assume they were.
Its not hard to get an exemption. You print the form and sign it. Even Medical in Cal, MS and WV- a dr just needs to sign the form saying its detrimental to their health.
Here's how it works:
All states have a compulsory vaccination law. The states of Mississippi, West Virginia, and California do not allow exemptions from this law. All children who at least attend public school must have the childhood vaccinations. A number of other states only allow for an exemption based on religious grounds. Some states read this very narrowly and require the equivalent of an appearance before a public official if you request this exemption. Others will grant it based on someone simply claiming on a form that they have a religious belief against vaccination. Finally, a number of states allow for an exemption based on either religious beliefs or a personal belief against vaccination.
I suppose a doctor could grant a medical exemption for immunization in Mississippi, West Virginia, and California. The medical board in each state could do everyone a favor by threatening to discipline physicians for doing so if they can't demonstrate good cause for granting each exemption. It has occurred to me that anti-vaccine fanatics might try to take advantage of this loophole in the law. I think it needs to be watched very carefully. No doctor should be allowed to run a "mill" where he grants hundreds of such certificates. This ought to raise a red flag if the same name or names keeps coming up again.
Compulsory vaccination laws have been challenged in court on the basis that they violate guarantees of due process of law, religious freedom, and protection of other personal liberties under the Bill of Rights. Each time, the Supreme Court has rejected these challenges. In this long thread, you may have seen citations to two such Supreme Court cases: Jacobson v. Massachusetts and Zucht v. King. When these challenges are made the Supreme always states what is obvious. States have police powers that give them the right to pass laws protecting the health, welfare, and safety of their citizens. Vaccination and herd immunity is necessary to protect the health of their citizens. Therefore, compulsory vaccination laws which create herd immunity are constitutional under our system.
In essence, your right to exempt your child from vaccination depends on where you live and whether your child attends the public schools.
Last edited by markg91359; 04-26-2016 at 08:50 AM..
There is no one-shot solution to traffic accidents like there is to contagious diseases. An alternate solution to the vaccine deniers would be to quarantine them all in a "pest hole" and infect them with diseases that they refuse to be vaccinated against. The ones who survive could then be released into society with a clear conscience. We could use the military draft system to induct infectees. Of course, we would have to expand the draft to register females, but that would not be difficult. They could get a deferral just by providing proof of immunization.
Sounds like something that only a sociopath could dream up or something that the Nazi's did in the name of human experimentation. Yet you came up with this idea?
Those "White" States stand out in that sea of orange and shaded States (Religious/Philosophical) Exemptions. This is as of January 2016. California's new laws spreading across the Country?
All states have a compulsory vaccination law. The states of Mississippi, West Virginia, and California do not allow exemptions from this law. All children who at least attend public school must have the childhood vaccinations. A number of other states only allow for an exemption based on religious grounds. Some states read this very narrowly and require the equivalent of an appearance before a public official if you request this exemption. Others will grant it based on someone simply claiming on a form that they have a religious belief against vaccination. Finally, a number of states allow for an exemption based on either religious beliefs or a personal belief against vaccination.
I suppose a doctor could grant a medical exemption for immunization in Mississippi, West Virginia, and California. The medical board in each state could do everyone a favor by threatening to discipline physicians for doing so if they can't demonstrate good cause for granting each exemption. It has occurred to me that anti-vaccine fanatics might try to take advantage of this loophole in the law. I think it needs to be watched very carefully. No doctor should be allowed to run a "mill" where he grants hundreds of such certificates. This ought to raise a red flag if the same name or names keeps coming up again.
Compulsory vaccination laws have been challenged in court on the basis that they violate guarantees of due process of law, religious freedom, and protection of other personal liberties under the Bill of Rights. Each time, the Supreme Court has rejected these challenges. In this long thread, you may have seen citations to two such Supreme Court cases: Jacobson v. Massachusetts and Zucht v. King. When these challenges are made the Supreme always states what is obvious. States have police powers that give them the right to pass laws protecting the health, welfare, and safety of their citizens. Vaccination and herd immunity is necessary to protect the health of their citizens. Therefore, compulsory vaccination laws which create herd immunity are constitutional under our system.
In essence, your right to exempt your child from vaccination depends on where you live and whether your child attends the public schools.
As someone else said, Government may have the power to do so, but do they? Did they with the 2009 declared Flu Pandemic by the White House? You only have to go back 7 years, not 100 years, for the last Pandemic in the US.
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