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Old 08-12-2017, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Formerly New England now Texas!
1,708 posts, read 1,098,284 times
Reputation: 1562

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walker1962 View Post
It is OBVIOUSLY flawed because it essentially disenfranchises voters in large states in favor of smaller ones because of its winner takes all metric!
The electoral college defends minority states from domination by large more populated states. When the Constitution was created the Senate to House relation was more heavily leaning toward the Senate. If anything, 4 elector votes per Senator should be allowed today, this would restore the initial balance set by our founders between the House and Senate when selecting a President.
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,880,244 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by walker1962 View Post
It is OBVIOUSLY flawed because it essentially disenfranchises voters in large states in favor of smaller ones because of its winner takes all metric! If it was proportional voting, Trump NEVER wins because, for example, in a state with 30 electoral college votes but where he wins 51% he gets say 16 votes not 30. Texas would have been much more important to Clinton. At a minimum, winner take all state wins should only be allowed if one candidate can get 60% or more of that state's voting total.
Exactly. This would help give conservatives in say New York or California an incentive a vote while liberals in say Texas or even smaller states (even Arizona) to actually vote. Right now if you are a conservative in a blue state or a liberal in a red state, why even bother voting?

So let's look at what would have happened... Texas has 38 votes and went 52.23% for Trump, 43.24% for Clinton and Johnson getting 3.16% making 20 votes for Trump, 16 votes for Clinton and Johnson with 1 vote (leaving one elector.) Likewise New York only has 29 votes saw 59.01% for Clinton, 36.52% for Trump and 2.29% for Johnson making 17 votes for Clinton, 10 votes for Trump, and 1 vote for Johnson (again another one elector); Florida also has 29 votes and went 49.02% for Trump, 47.82% for Clinton and 2.20% for Johnson making 14 votes for Trump, 14 votes for Clinton and Johnson with 1 vote; and California with their 55 votes 61.73% for Clinton, 31.62% for Trump, 3.37% for Johnson 1.98% for Stein giving us 34 votes for Clinton, 17 votes for Trump, 2 votes for Johnson and 1 vote for Stein (leaving yet another one elector.)

The only problem I've seen is round off issues of the independent votes causing say 1 elector to be not bound.
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:47 AM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,286,698 times
Reputation: 45726
Quote:
Originally Posted by functionofx View Post
The electoral college defends minority states from domination by large more populated states. When the Constitution was created the Senate to House relation was more heavily leaning toward the Senate. If anything, 4 elector votes per Senator should be allowed today, this would restore the initial balance set by our founders between the House and Senate when selecting a President.
Which is just a way of saying that smaller group of voters gets to prevail over a larger group of voters. This is the antithesis of what an election is all about.

True or false. States are non-living entities.

True or false. Non-living entities are not human and therefore do not have rights.

The "rights" that we speak of are accorded to the people who live in those states. A citizen in Wyoming, Alaska, and Delaware should have no more a right when it comes to voting than a citizen in California, Florida, or Texas.

Please stop acting like states have rights. They don't have rights any more than automobiles do.
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:48 AM
 
28,661 posts, read 18,764,698 times
Reputation: 30933
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Which is just a way of saying that smaller group of voters gets to prevail over a larger group of voters. This is the antithesis of what an election is all about.

True or false. States are non-living entities.
States are associations of human beings.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,521,957 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Is the Electoral College Flawed
Horribly

Quote:
and if So How do We Change It?
Replace it with the same criteria that decide every other election at every other level.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Independent Republic of Ballard
8,067 posts, read 8,358,268 times
Reputation: 6228
I'm for proportional allocation of electoral votes, but it would need to be done in all states, not just some. If just red or blue states did it, they would be disadvantaged relative to the other party, which would garner 100% of their states' electoral votes.

A major problem with this is that it is much more likely that no candidate would win a majority of electoral votes, due to third parties being able to garner a significant proportion of electoral votes, with the election being thrown into a heavily gerrymandered, and thus unrepresentative, House of Representatives to decide between the top three electoral vote getters, with one vote for each state delegation, heavily favoring rural "red" states. It is quite possible that the least popular of the three candidates could be elected.

The best way to deal with this, in my opinion, would be to have a national run-off between the two candidates with the most electoral votes, taking the House entirely out of the process.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:38 AM
 
564 posts, read 448,420 times
Reputation: 1155
Is the EC perfect? No.

Is it vastly superior to anything today's political geniuses would contrive?
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:41 AM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,534,604 times
Reputation: 15501
I don't get why people think electoral college is flawed, but seem to think a popular vote would not be

do they also think the senate is flawed because small states get the same weight as large states?

why do people think politics is a popularity contest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Please stop acting like states have rights. They don't have rights any more than automobiles do.
"People" also do not have rights unless the government wants to provide it. Look around history, "rights" can be taken away easily at gun point
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,765 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
States are associations of human beings.
Sort of like corporations are people.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,765 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32905
Quote:
Originally Posted by cekkk View Post
Is the EC perfect? No.

Is it vastly superior to anything today's political geniuses would contrive?
No
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