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Old 11-20-2017, 10:29 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,597,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
Having come of age in the 60's things haven't changed enough. The irony was that in the 70's many Vietnam vets became cops and they mostly all smoked grass. Most everyone of our age did, until mandatory random drug testing was introduced in the workplace in the 80's. I completed one year of law school in 1970 (before deciding the law wasn't a field I wanted to spend my life in) and 95% of the law students smoked grass, so all those future lawyers and judges an politicians (including Clinton and Obama) inhaled. The way I see it, the war on drugs was a huge money maker for the federal, state and city governments, the legal profession, rehab centers and makers of drugs like methadone.

My former gardner was on methadone and it cost him $800 a month, no insurance would cover it and he didn't qualify for state aid because he had a job. The hypocracy of encouraging people to get off drugs who then need to spend 1/3 of their salary for methadone is mind boggling. My gardner couldn't afford a car or an apartment and rented a room in a friend's house. He would have been better off moving to Vancouver where it would be free.

We are finally getting some legalization of pot for medical and recreational use. Here in NJ we have medical marijuana and will soon have recreational marijuana, but growing a single plant is a felony with a mandatory 3 year prison sentence. Why? Because the politicians don't care about marijuana or it's users, they just want to protect the corporate interests that will be selling it legally at the tune of about $300 a month for the average user.

The bottom line in answer to your question is that politicians follow the money, and cops protect the money.
Im not so sure about that, the big pharma companies didnt seem to have any problems with Govt and DEA cracking down hard on opiate painkillers back in 2012, opiates were their cash cow at the time, doctors were writing scripts left and right for them, people were willing to pay 10X the retail price. They could be rolling in cash if they fought the new laws.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Prescott Arizona
1,649 posts, read 1,008,168 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by nurider2002 View Post
The ONLY way to curb the influx of illegal drugs is by decreasing demand. Our society should be putting efforts into treatment and prevention but, that is too complicated. We would be forced to address issues like poverty, racism, inequality, all the uncomfortable issues that keep so many folks from achieving success. So, we choose to view drug dealers as evil and users as the "problem". The reality is for many, dealing drugs is their only option. It's all they know, all their parents ever knew. Until we make an honest effort to create opportunities for all people to succeed, we will have a drug problem. So, we treat it as a crime, rather than what it is - a way to keep people down.
I agree, and the treatment should look like this, honestly....

https://www.rawstory.com/wp-content/...ck-800x430.jpg

I've had so much **** stolen from me by drug addicts in my life that I simply have little to no sympathy. I feel you get a couple chances, and if you can't clean up you either get sent to a colony for drug addicts that one can never leave or you get executed. There is no room for these types in a civilized society because once they get hooked, it is only a matter of time before they will steal. With drugs like meth or heroine it's almost 100%.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:48 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,597,947 times
Reputation: 15341
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrt1979 View Post
I agree, and the treatment should look like this, honestly....

https://www.rawstory.com/wp-content/...ck-800x430.jpg

I've had so much **** stolen from me by drug addicts in my life that I simply have little to no sympathy. I feel you get a couple chances, and if you can't clean up you either get sent to a colony for drug addicts that one can never leave or you get executed. There is no room for these types in a civilized society because once they get hooked, it is only a matter of time before they will steal. With drugs like meth or heroine it's almost 100%.
They could easily stop the drug problem by targeting the source, with heroin, the mexican cartels and the poppy fields.

As Ive said before, if the cartels have enough opium to keep the entire US supplied in heroin consistently, the poppy fields can probably be seen from space, to keep one moderate user supplied, it takes 5-8 acres of poppies (a single plant does not secrete much of the narcotic alkaloid...need LOTS of plants).

There would be plenty of justification in using military to destroy them, since it is such a huge problem and the amount of lives its taken or destroyed. Its actually terrorism when you think about it.
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:28 AM
 
3,129 posts, read 1,332,443 times
Reputation: 2493
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
They could easily stop the drug problem by targeting the source, with heroin, the mexican cartels and the poppy fields.

As Ive said before, if the cartels have enough opium to keep the entire US supplied in heroin consistently, the poppy fields can probably be seen from space, to keep one moderate user supplied, it takes 5-8 acres of poppies (a single plant does not secrete much of the narcotic alkaloid...need LOTS of plants).

There would be plenty of justification in using military to destroy them, since it is such a huge problem and the amount of lives its taken or destroyed. Its actually terrorism when you think about it.
I'm sorry, but that just won't work. The exact same mindset was used against pot in the 70's when the military was brought in to spray fields with Paraquat. It didn't work. Even if it had worked, growing would have commenced in well hidden fields or indoors. There's always going to be a way around the law as long as the demand and money is there.

It is no different with poppies, or with meth for that matter. The more you crank up The War, the more time, money, and lives are wasted because ways around The War will always be able to be found.

The War on Drugs doesn't work.
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:32 AM
 
8,011 posts, read 8,208,250 times
Reputation: 12164
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
They could easily stop the drug problem by targeting the source, with heroin, the mexican cartels and the poppy fields.

As Ive said before, if the cartels have enough opium to keep the entire US supplied in heroin consistently, the poppy fields can probably be seen from space, to keep one moderate user supplied, it takes 5-8 acres of poppies (a single plant does not secrete much of the narcotic alkaloid...need LOTS of plants).

There would be plenty of justification in using military to destroy them, since it is such a huge problem and the amount of lives its taken or destroyed. Its actually terrorism when you think about it.
I've posted a thread on the War on Drugs and have found that a lot of these cartels have powerful allies that hold sway over our society. Follow the money. Not the drugs. Cut off the money supply.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:27 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,674,856 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
They could easily stop the drug problem by targeting the source, with heroin, the mexican cartels and the poppy fields.
Honestly, you need to do some reading.

1. Afghanistan grows poppies - in vast quantities protected by the USA.
2. The Golden Triangle - Thailand, etc. is still in business.
3. Mexico is the newcomer - plenty of poppies growing in Columbia and in our other allies.
4. Iran, Turkey and Eastern Europe are vast sources of poppies.
5. Australia is the source of much of the world's poppies for big Pharma - Tasmania also.
6. Even the Brits and the Dutch grow vast quantities of poppies although most go for flowers and seed - but who is watching.
7. Spain is a vast source of poppies.

Now - take all those together with the newbie Mexicans and even the field in British Columbia......and, guess what? We don't need them at all.

Opiates are easily synthesized - in other words, made from scratch. That is how the the big US Pharma corporations do it. One seizure last week was enough to kill 35 million people. China, India, Pakistan and now chemists in the USA are mixing the stuff up from scratch. You can go right now on the "dark web" and buy it by the pound.

So, tell us again how we target the source? This is akin to the war on booze. It ain't gonna happen.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa!
7,783 posts, read 6,085,935 times
Reputation: 7099
We finally have a REAL war on drugs, although it is not designed to stop drugs coming into the US. We have started bombing the heroin factories in Afghanistan that the Taliban has been using to fund their activities.

That is a War on Drugs that i can get behind!
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:09 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,597,947 times
Reputation: 15341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
I'm sorry, but that just won't work. The exact same mindset was used against pot in the 70's when the military was brought in to spray fields with Paraquat. It didn't work. Even if it had worked, growing would have commenced in well hidden fields or indoors. There's always going to be a way around the law as long as the demand and money is there.

It is no different with poppies, or with meth for that matter. The more you crank up The War, the more time, money, and lives are wasted because ways around The War will always be able to be found.

The War on Drugs doesn't work.
Have you noticed though, after Pablo Esocbar was killed, they dont really target the cartels, the war on drugs is primarily fighting the drugs once they are in the country. I think this is a huge red flag, after all, in order to justify spending on a war...there has to be a big enough problem to begin with, so in order for the drug war to continue year after year, they need alot of drugs continually coming in.

Kind of the same thing with the war on terror, there must be a significant terrorism problem to justify the war against it, if we go months and years without any attacks, public support starts dropping off, gets harder to justify the spending, small random attacks here and there are to keep the public supporting the larger war.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:10 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,597,947 times
Reputation: 15341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
We finally have a REAL war on drugs, although it is not designed to stop drugs coming into the US. We have started bombing the heroin factories in Afghanistan that the Taliban has been using to fund their activities.

That is a War on Drugs that i can get behind!
Why would they bomb production facilities but then station troops to guard the poppy fields?
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:15 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,597,947 times
Reputation: 15341
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Honestly, you need to do some reading.

1. Afghanistan grows poppies - in vast quantities protected by the USA.
2. The Golden Triangle - Thailand, etc. is still in business.
3. Mexico is the newcomer - plenty of poppies growing in Columbia and in our other allies.
4. Iran, Turkey and Eastern Europe are vast sources of poppies.
5. Australia is the source of much of the world's poppies for big Pharma - Tasmania also.
6. Even the Brits and the Dutch grow vast quantities of poppies although most go for flowers and seed - but who is watching.
7. Spain is a vast source of poppies.

Now - take all those together with the newbie Mexicans and even the field in British Columbia......and, guess what? We don't need them at all.

Opiates are easily synthesized - in other words, made from scratch. That is how the the big US Pharma corporations do it. One seizure last week was enough to kill 35 million people. China, India, Pakistan and now chemists in the USA are mixing the stuff up from scratch. You can go right now on the "dark web" and buy it by the pound.

So, tell us again how we target the source? This is akin to the war on booze. It ain't gonna happen.
Opiates are not that easy to synthesize or grow them at home, its why we arent seeing illegal poppy fields all over the place, despite a huge heroin problem.

They can only be grown in certain climates and it takes a huge amount of plants to produce enough usable narcotic opium, when i was an addict, we looked into growing our own, found it takes 5-8 acres of poppies to keep one moderate user supplied, its just not practical for the do it your selfer.

IF anyone had fake or homemade opiate drugs that truly worked the same way, they could be making a fortune right now...not seeing any evidence of that.
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