The whole reporting sexual assault decades later debate (accuses, 9/11, how much)
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I believe the women here, sort of. I don't think they're making anything up. I'm skeptical of their ability to remember details. I'm that old too. When I look at pictures from 35 years ago, I find I forget what my own room looked like, the shirts I wore, people in my life, and so on. I had my leg broken in a fight, twice, in two separate incidents. Don't ask. That traumatic event did not improve my memory. I mean, I remember who did it in each case, and where it happened. I don't remember dates, which matches up to Christine Ford. I don't remember other particulars too. I know other people were there. I have no idea who they were. I don't remember days of the week, what led up to it, nothing. I don't remember who started the fights, me or them. Just lots of stuff I don't remember. If we get a detailed, "I'm rock-solid sure this is exactly what happened, second by second," type account in the Senate, I'm going to be very skeptical. A general account, I'm more likely to believe. And please, let's not pretend this isn't political. I'm a dem. It's political. Doesn't invalidate the accusations, but come on. If you don't see the political angle, you're not posting in good faith. If I'm in a bitter divorce battle with my wife, and my best friend testifies that she's a lush who beats our kids, you consider the source. Maybe he's telling the truth. But it's not shocking to consider who is speaking. It's just due diligence. The testimony itself will be more important than the political angle.
Interesting that, for the most part, boys who were molested by priests years ago were sympathized with, while, for the most part, women who come forward years later are condemned for their previous silence.
So it's not true that nobody paid attention to these kids, that they were afraid to talk and so on? I mean, didn't they try to get attention for years in some cases as adults, and nothing happened? In your world, a man walks into a police station, says, "A priest molested me twenty years ago," and two hours later the priest is in handcuffs? Talk about clueless. Unbelievable. Literally, unbelievable. Give me a break. And read a book once in a while.
...or...is there a debate at all? (Figured I'd post it in "Great debates)
I only write this because recently had a handful of female friends on social media post about how ashamed they are of their OWN friends on Facebook are calling the "reporting sexual assault 30 years later to be hogwash". That their friends are dismissing that if they came out with it this late, it was probably consensual and it was just regret sex or something.
(This happens when the guy has sex, and doesn't call her back and SHE calls it rape).
They are upset that their OWN friends find fault with women waiting so long to report it.
It's like "Shame on you for doubting them!"
Be honest, would you seriously block or unfriend, even in real life, your friends that you know on Facebook that have lacked empathy towards the victims coming forward decades later? Does it shock you that many are in opposition against those who come forward with their experiences?
I think people react based on their own life experiences. I agree it seems sort of disingenuous when someone is proposed for a position, everyone holds their breath waiting for their accusers to step forward. But is it real? Probably. That's what my life experience has taught me.
I was never raped but I was, most likely, assaulted. I was a sweet young thing living in TX in the 1970's. Once by a very wealthy patron of the restaurant where I worked, and the other time by a famous lawyer at a party in my neighborhood. So famous you would know his name. At first we though it was 'neat' that he came to our party. He was rich, powerful, and famous. But then we realized he was perv-trolling for women young enough to be his grandchildren! To understand, you have to realize I was still at least partly a child when this happened. I wasn't equipped to handle the situations.
After I was able to refuse to have sex with them, they both went on to threaten me. Here is some of what I remember.
If you tell my wife or the police no one will believe you.
I will tell everyone you wanted sex with with me and I turned you down.
If you tell I will make sure you lose your job.
If you tell anyone something bad will happen to you.
If you tell I will talk to your parents and tell them I turned you down and you were drunk.
I am rich. I can make people like you disappear.
Did I tell? No. Because I believed at least part of what they were saying. And in my mind no one in authority would have taken my word over theirs. I was a nobody. A kid. I had no power at all. But I learned an important lesson. I never trusted rich powerful old white men.
So let's say time passes and this lawyer becomes a judge and is nominated for the Supreme Court. Would I then step forward? I hope I would. No one who would assault and threaten a child should be sitting on the highest court in the country.
I think people react based on their own life experiences. I agree it seems sort of disingenuous when someone is proposed for a position, everyone holds their breath waiting for their accusers to step forward. But is it real? Probably. That's what my life experience has taught me.
I was never raped but I was, most likely, assaulted. I was a sweet young thing living in TX in the 1970's. Once by a very wealthy patron of the restaurant where I worked, and the other time by a famous lawyer at a party in my neighborhood. So famous you would know his name. At first we though it was 'neat' that he came to our party. He was rich, powerful, and famous. But then we realized he was perv-trolling for women young enough to be his grandchildren! To understand, you have to realize I was still at least partly a child when this happened. I wasn't equipped to handle the situations.
After I was able to refuse to have sex with them, they both went on to threaten me. Here is some of what I remember.
If you tell my wife or the police no one will believe you.
I will tell everyone you wanted sex with with me and I turned you down.
If you tell I will make sure you lose your job.
If you tell anyone something bad will happen to you.
If you tell I will talk to your parents and tell them I turned you down and you were drunk.
I am rich. I can make people like you disappear.
Did I tell? No. Because I believed at least part of what they were saying. And in my mind no one in authority would have taken my word over theirs. I was a nobody. A kid. I had no power at all. But I learned an important lesson. I never trusted rich powerful old white men.
So let's say time passes and this lawyer becomes a judge and is nominated for the Supreme Court. Would I then step forward? I hope I would. No one who would assault and threaten a child should be sitting on the highest court in the country.
That is only some of what you remember? That's a good thing. I think seven different generic, stereotypical threats in a social situation, from someone you met for the first time, is a little unbelievable. Once we got up to eleven to fifteen threats, I would buy into the scenario. Since this is only some of what you remember, I'm on-board. A very believable account. I'm imagining the missing threats now. They make me shiver! I'm starting to shudder now.
If you were propositioned and declined, without threats, I wouldn't have bought into it at all. That would have been unbelievable. Thanks for sharing.
And please, let's not pretend this isn't political. I'm a dem. It's political. Doesn't invalidate the accusations, but come on.
If the accusations are true, the Democrats should be itching to get him confirmed. The constitution allows judges to be impeached for criminal behavior. Considering that the democrats will (in all likelihood) soon control both branches of congress, their best bet is to allow the nomination to proceed. Next build a rock-solid case against him. Finally, impeach him when the democrats control the Senate and there is a democrat president elect.
On the other hand, if Democrats stop the confirmation, Trump is going to select another Justice (probably female and probably willing to overturn Roe - Amy Barrett most likely). That confirmation will get pushed through after the election but before the Democratic majority is sworn in.
The fact that the democrats are blocking the nomination, shows there is no real case and its most likely political theater. I'd also like to mention that accusations #2 and #3 have really hurt the cause. The first one was plausible but the next two have gotten progressively more ridiculous... seriously gang rape... you don't have to shoot for all the marbles.
If the accusations are true, the Democrats should be itching to get him confirmed. The constitution allows judges to be impeached for criminal behavior. Considering that the democrats will (in all likelihood) soon control both branches of congress, their best bet is to allow the nomination to proceed. Next build a rock-solid case against him. Finally, impeach him when the democrats control the Senate and there is a democrat president elect.
On the other hand, if Democrats stop the confirmation, Trump is going to select another Justice (probably female and probably willing to overturn Roe - Amy Barrett most likely). That confirmation will get pushed through after the election but before the Democratic majority is sworn in.
The fact that the democrats are blocking the nomination, shows there is no real case and its most likely political theater. I'd also like to mention that accusations #2 and #3 have really hurt the cause. The first one was plausible but the next two have gotten progressively more ridiculous... seriously gang rape... you don't have to shoot for all the marbles.
I guess I need to point out some fundamentals.
1) It would be really, really hard to prove criminal behavior here.
2) Even if there were criminal behavior, the statute of limitations is long elapsed.
1) It would be really, really hard to prove criminal behavior here.
2) Even if there were criminal behavior, the statute of limitations is long elapsed.
I just read Swetnick's affidavit. It was believable. It didn't go overboard with detail. I don't know if criminal behavior can be proven, but the affidavit gave more avenues for corroboration than the previous statements. It referred to multiple events. I'm not big on conviction without evidence. But I'm convinced now that somebody needs to talk to Judge, at least, and other friends of Kavanaugh before a vote. Swetnick's statement is big enough and huge enough that if events transpired anything close to what she claims, other people will back up her story. Too many people were involved. We deserve to know. What Swetnick describes goes well behind awkward encounters.
So it's not true that nobody paid attention to these kids, that they were afraid to talk and so on? I mean, didn't they try to get attention for years in some cases as adults, and nothing happened? In your world, a man walks into a police station, says, "A priest molested me twenty years ago," and two hours later the priest is in handcuffs? Talk about clueless. Unbelievable. Literally, unbelievable. Give me a break. And read a book once in a while.
If you want to see clueless, think of your own post.
We now know there were literally thousands of boys who were molested by priests around the world. Some spoke up. Most did not.
If you want to see clueless, think of your own post.
We now know there were literally thousands of boys who were molested by priests around the world. Some spoke up. Most did not.
You should really familiarize yourself with what happened with the Catholic priests. The priests in question were investigated by the Catholic church and confessed to their actions. While the sexual abuse was bad enough, the even worse scandal was the coverup.
Which is oh, so different, from the experience of a girl who doesn't speak out because she won't be believed.
Sure, I see the difference. Thanks for learning me.
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