Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
UBI is a wonderful idea. The problem is the world is full of greedy people who will simply adjust up costs rendering the UBI effectively zero. i.e., if at average rental for a one bedroom apartment was $500 and then everyone is granted a IBI the landlord would simply jack up the rent as much as possible, perhaps $1000. The same would apply to consumer goods to the point where a UBI may make it harder for the poor to get by.
The world is full of greed and Americans are no exception. If the hoarders really cared about their fellow Americans they wouldn't have filled up their garages with TP and then tried to sell it for $10/roll. Covid 19 unveiled the true greed of Americans.
The most ironic thing is that many of these "capitalists" are Bible thumpers.
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 28 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,592,007 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
Charity handles most of your straw men. Death takes care of The rest. And yes, death is superior to living in a society based on tyranny, coercion and theft.
The government isn't going any where any time soon, nor are they going to stop thefting of peoples money and redistributing it keeping most of it for themselves and giving a few their freedoms from taxation, by having others pay for it.
Charity --- I found this little tid bit off of something some one else posted, this thread or another I don't know:
" ... Christian charity totally replaced ancient philanthropy in the seventh century, sanctioned by the state–church alliance forged by Herakleios."
Quote:
Death takes care of The rest
Actually it doesn't. Human Beings have yet to graduate from being barbaric in nature. They just went from (which is not to say this is the beginning of barbarism) having 'death arena' amusement and entertainment of the Roman era to massive killings worldwide. ssdd
Except you don't have the moral courage to show how the money will be raised to pay for it, so it cannot be as wonderful as you say it is.
You'll need to raise in excess of $12 TRILLION for your vision of UBI if it includes universal healthcare and universal daycare.
What exactly was AGI in 2017?
It was exactly $10,910,747,144,000.
Let's see......$10.9 TRILLION in income and $12+ TRILLION in spending. On welfare alone and nothing else...no agriculture, no parks and forests, no military, no border security, no diplomatic missions, no science, no health or medical research, no education, no transportation, no commerce, no FBI, no intelligence community, no Secret Service, no federal courts, no Veteran's Administration, no nothing....just welfare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by donsabi
The problem is the world is full of greedy people who will simply adjust up costs rendering the UBI effectively zero. i.e., if at average rental for a one bedroom apartment was $500 and then everyone is granted a IBI the landlord would simply jack up the rent as much as possible, perhaps $1000.
It has zero to with greed, and everything to do with Demand-pull Inflation.
I have an apartment that rents for $500/month, because the inviolable Law of Supply & Demand says so, and because 1,000 people are willing to pay $500/month.
With UBI there are now 10,000 people willing to pay $500/month, except there are now 1,000 people willing to pay $650/month, so that is what I charge.
Well, for people with problems, death. Charity does not deal with psychos and violent offenders. Time to face up to it for some posters here. Start deporting your citizens or watch them burn your charities down.
Psychos and violent offenders go to jail. Prison is a valid government function that allows the good people to be shielded and protected from the bad people. Big, beautiful, well-built steel & concrete prisons. I am happy to pay taxes for this valuable public purpose. ‘
Guys, let’s stop with this UBI nonsense. It’s another socialist utopian pipe dream that is never going to happen. So put your little bootstraps on and start pulling them up. Because you’re getting nothing! Unless you bring some value and trade for it.
We can cut those functions of government. Most are completely optional. We need national defense and a court system. Police and prisons. Maybe some roads and infrastructure. Everything else can be eliminated or vastly reduced. The private free sector can handle nearly everything else, and on a much fairer basis. The State does not need to be a provider or participant in housing, health care, education, or culture. And certainly no handing out free money such as UBI. Cut, cut, cut. And expect much more from citizens.
I take it you aren't in favor of agencies like the EPA, the FDA, etc. You know, the ones that at least try to make sure your vaunted corporations don't make their profits by foisting all of their externalities on other people. Without regulation, unfettered capitalism is a disaster, with animal blood flowing freely in the streets from slaughterhouses, employees being maimed by machinery without guards, and factories spewing pollutants freely into the air. I am old enough to remember the days when pollution was horrific, and don't want to return to those days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
Psychos and violent offenders go to jail. Prison is a valid government function that allows the good people to be shielded and protected from the bad people. Big, beautiful, well-built steel & concrete prisons. I am happy to pay taxes for this valuable public purpose. ‘
I take it you aren't in favor of agencies like the EPA, the FDA, etc. You know, the ones that at least try to make sure your vaunted corporations don't make their profits by foisting all of their externalities on other people. Without regulation, unfettered capitalism is a disaster, with animal blood flowing freely in the streets from slaughterhouses, employees being maimed by machinery without guards, and factories spewing pollutants freely into the air. I am old enough to remember the days when pollution was horrific, and don't want to return to those days.
Isn't that special.
No, state regulations are not necessary or desirable. The judicial system can handle any issues through the process of civil action. And every safety advance that you mistakenly attribute to state coercion would have happened organically on its own. Most regulation is i]unnecessary, redundant, and retards progress and stifles innovation. Get rid of it.
And some pollution is unavoidable and indicates desirable advances. I love pollution in moderation. If a company can be shown to have damaged others through pollution, civil remedies can handle it. The EPA and the FDA should be abolished. They hold us back.
No, state regulations are not necessary or desirable. The judicial system can handle any issues through the process of civil action. And every safety advance that you mistakenly attribute to state coercion would have happened organically on its own. Most regulation is i]unnecessary, redundant, and retards progress and stifles innovation. Get rid of it.
And some pollution is unavoidable and indicates desirable advances. I love pollution in moderation. If a company can be shown to have damaged others through pollution, civil remedies can handle it. The EPA and the FDA should be abolished. They hold us back.
The judicial system can handle any issues through the process of civil action, really. Hate to break it to you but you live in uptopia, we live in the real world. Regulations are needed. Without them courts will throw out lawsuits related to safety cuts for profits or externalities of profit for being frivolous. I bet you are one of those tort reform supporters aren't you. If you are you talking out of both sides of your ass on the judicial system being used to help the little guy. You don't fool me.
Guys, let’s stop with this UBI nonsense. It’s another socialist utopian pipe dream that is never going to happen. So put your little bootstraps on and start pulling them up. Because you’re getting nothing! Unless you bring some value and trade for it.
Yet weirdly when the pandemic hit the Government went straight for what was essentially a UBI payment when mass unemployment hit the fan followed by massive industry bailouts. Now round 2 is on the horizon. Funny how essentially socialist concepts are trotted out as a solution whenever the free market falls flat. And then once things normalize we go back to this bootstrap fantasy of hard work and individual effort as the sole catalyst for personal and corporate success.
No, state regulations are not necessary or desirable. The judicial system can handle any issues through the process of civil action. And every safety advance that you mistakenly attribute to state coercion would have happened organically on its own. Most regulation is i]unnecessary, redundant, and retards progress and stifles innovation. Get rid of it.
And some pollution is unavoidable and indicates desirable advances. I love pollution in moderation. If a company can be shown to have damaged others through pollution, civil remedies can handle it. The EPA and the FDA should be abolished. They hold us back.
That's the funniest piece of stupidity I've seen in a long time. You are completely and utterly clueless on this topic.
Use the judicial system to stop large factories from polluting? Sure, I'll take my $20,000 and hire a lawyer, while the factory owner is willing to spend as much money as it takes to run me out of the courthouse when I am out of money. Or, the pollution is caused by some organized crime guys dumping toxic chemicals in the middle of the night somewhere. Or, the company responsible for the pollution goes bankrupt, and there's no money to clean up their mess.
Absent the FDA, we would have multiple thalidomide situations yearly. Without food regulations, we would have people dying or being injured by food issues.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
