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Old 06-03-2020, 11:36 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
24,128 posts, read 32,512,221 times
Reputation: 68395

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The OP complains about the "rioters and protesters" he sees every night.

First of all, we must be watching different networks. In fact, if you are more concerned with broken glad than a dead man with a crushed trachea due to the actions of a murderous cop. I can't waste my time arguing.

We speak different languages.

RIP George Floyd.
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,903,213 times
Reputation: 28563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Well, questions like that sometimes need other questions to consider.


Why do fewer black people attend/graduate college?



Why is the black incarceration rate so much higher?



Why do black people generally die younger?



Why do black people drop out of high school at a far higher rate? (69 percent vs 86 percent)








Hmm... Did that last question.. Provide a good answer to all the questions above it?


Maybe.. We need to focus on the right thing. Correcting one issue can have a trickle effect that solves many, many problems.


That high school graduation thing.. I mean, right there.. 30% can't get into the military. Boom. and, don't go off.. The military can be a very good career for some people. Hell, my dad is collecting over $100k in retirement thanks to military and then another government job after military retirement. Not going to compare to the plight of the blacks in America.. but.. He came from a small cotton mill village in South Carolina. His father died when he was 8 (Accidental gunshot/suicide or murder pending on who you ask).. He went into the Air Force, went to college thanks to them.. Went into the Army Guard.. Retired at 25+ years then went to work for the US Attorney's office.


Obviously. this is all my opinion. But.. Dropping out.. While a GED isn't bad and I certainly wouldn't exclude anyone solely based on that. If it came down to two candidates who were equal.. The person who graduated high school would get the 'point' there. Not that i'd go with them solely because of that.. But.. We've been harping the 'stay in school' for 40 years now. 69%
Why is it easier for white high school dropouts to get jobs than black college grads?



https://www.epi.org/publication/unem...the-recession/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...duates/430971/
https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...ing-good-jobs/
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
6,815 posts, read 4,257,270 times
Reputation: 18649
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Why is it easier for white high school dropouts to get jobs than black college grads?

That's not what the graph you posted says. The graph shows a nearly double unemployment rate for white HS dropouts than for black college grads.
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Old 06-03-2020, 12:28 PM
 
586 posts, read 315,003 times
Reputation: 1768
The protesters are trying to make a point. The looters are a bunch of thieves trying to steal under an invalid imprimatur of moral rectitude.
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Old 06-03-2020, 01:03 PM
 
10,609 posts, read 5,657,027 times
Reputation: 18905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
The experience didn't leave me feeling good that is for sure...

...in the 2 examples I was not the bad guy yet I walked away feeling like they didn't care...

... but 2 of the examples I was the victim not the criminal and I felt like I was wronged.

There is no wonder why so many people do not trust the Police or even like them but what is the answer?
The only interactions I've ever had with police is a few speeding tickets over a lifetime of driving, each of which I deserved. The last one, the motorcycle cop said at the end, "It was nice to meet you." I thought it was an odd thing to say, so it stuck in my memory, but he was being pleasant.

However, I've had numerous interactions with other public sector employees - at the local, country, state and Federal level. In all of those interactions, I had a similar feeling to the one you describe.

They did not care. They don't have to care; except for extreme circumstances, they cannot be fired for incompetence. They cannot be fired for doing a poor job. They continue to collect paychecks regardless how well or poorly they perform, and they continue to accrue their gold-plated pensions & Cadillac health care.

It is clear in this Pandemic that the population of the US has suffered from a massive failure of the Regulatory State, starting with incompetence at the WHO, at the CDC, at the FDA, at HHS, and at the state and county health departments across the nation. This failure has not been among the political appointees; this failure has been with career civil servants who are allowed to perform poorly while they continue to accrue their gold-plated pensions & Cadillac health care.

What is the answer? The first step must be individual accountability at all levels among the career bureaucrats and mandarins in the public sector. We need to eliminate public sector unions. We need to eliminate public sector union protections of rogue police and other public sector employees. We need to eliminate collective bargaining, and implement a strict meritocracy.

And we must fire poor performing public sector employees among Law Enforcement Officers at all levels, along with other public sector employees who are poor performing as well.

If there had been no police union protecting Derek Chauvin, he would have been fired long ago rather than being left on the police accruing 18 prior complaints filed against him with the Minneapolis Police Department's Internal Affairs.

The most important thing is public sector employees need to start performing as if their performance actually matters. They need to start performing as if they can be fired for incompetence.

And we need to start filing them. Start with each year, firing the bottom 5% of performers, regardless. Get them off the payroll, and confiscate their gold-plated pensions & Cadillac health care benefits.
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Old 06-03-2020, 01:16 PM
 
5,214 posts, read 4,026,336 times
Reputation: 3468
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-X900H-65...ef_=ast_sto_dp
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Old 06-03-2020, 01:24 PM
 
10,609 posts, read 5,657,027 times
Reputation: 18905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
It was a very good economy for the investment class. As this current spasm has clearly shown, it wasn't nearly as good for everyone else.
There is no such thing as the "investment class," of course.

The data show the economy has benefited everyone.
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Old 06-03-2020, 03:16 PM
 
1,586 posts, read 1,131,601 times
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Come on... If you have a 401k, an HSA or a mutual fund, you are an "investment class" citizen. That's a lot of people that benefited the last 9 years. Quit trying to make it sound like an exclusive club.
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Old 06-03-2020, 03:35 PM
 
17,606 posts, read 15,292,362 times
Reputation: 22921
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
That's not what the graph you posted says. The graph shows a nearly double unemployment rate for white HS dropouts than for black college grads.

That's nitpicky.. I agree with what he and the graph says. I just don't think he's digging deep enough to answer it, especially when taking into account the point of my original post.






My answer to it is this.


https://www.sentencingproject.org/news/5593/


and.. Still, I point back to the close to 25% swing in HS graduation rates.


First, let me point out that your own graph, as Veritas did, that as the education level rises, the disparity shrinks. That's a very small gap when you look at College Graduates. When you're educated.. That's getting close to statistical noise so far as the difference. Some argument could be made that since blacks are approximately 14% of the US population (Identifies as black and only black, not mixed race) every person swings the percentages much more.



Now, you take into account no High School education.. PLUS a much higher felony conviction rate..



I mean, find me someone who is willing to hire a felon first off.. That's hard enough.. But then find someone willing to hire someone with a felony conviction who also doesn't even have a high school education.


And THAT is my answer as to why there's such a big difference there. Systematic racism? No, I don't believe that. At least, not as the answer. Does it happen? I'm certain it does. But that's not the overriding factor.



So.. I stand behind the belief that we need to work VERY hard on improving that 69% number. That will help bring the other numbers better into line. Is that the ONLY problem? Certainly not. But I do believe it is the biggest problem.


Also, it's well established that the higher the education level, the less likely someone is to commit a crime. So, better education, which does mean better education opportunities.. Drives down the crime rate and I think starts balancing that graph. Again.. Not the entire problem.. But a very big piece of the puzzle.
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Old 06-03-2020, 03:55 PM
 
19,058 posts, read 27,635,592 times
Reputation: 20283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
What are the goals of the peaceful protesters that marched in cities across the nation this past weekend in support of the murdered George Floyd while in Police custody?
Martin Luther King had goals, he had a dream of equality and he brought about change through his mostly peaceful approach during the Civil Rights marches and sit ins.
People can carry all the signs they want and march for hundreds of miles but when the majority of people and the majority of Police officers are on their side then what are they hoping to change with their protests?
I think we can all agree that Floyds death was terrible and tragic but what are the riots going to do for his memory? The looting and burning, the destruction of public and private property makes no sense and all it does is to reinforce the old stereotypes that young black men should be feared.
If the majority of us agree with the protesters, that Police should not come down as hard as some of them do on black suspects then what are the protests really about?

None. Nothing will change.
Thing is, there are 2 ways to do radical changes.
Upper class do not wish to live as they did.
Lower class can not live as they did anymore.
In both cases, it results in a revolution, peaceful or not, with according system change.
For this to happen, there needs to be an ideology, a new one.

One, that contradicts existing one. Opposes it.


As you can clearly see, none is present.

There are "two" parties that, after even at a glance review are, basically, same. They both pursue same goal, with some minor differences and major PR advertisement that, surprisingly, never comes true, as soon as they get to power.


None of such ideology have protesters. None of protesters, no matter what branch of them you take - blacks rights, women rights, gay rights, Indian rights, so on and so on, they all have pretty much same goal in mind - better (more money) life and preservation of existing system. With just change in who's at the top.


With such lack of constructive ideology, any protests - peaceful, as we are not discussing provocations in forms of rioting and looting - are pointless as, until the system is changed to something different, issues, inherent to that system, will persevere.



As it was said, protests will slowly weather away, few shots will be fired, few people killed, insurances will pay those who suffered from looting and, in few weeks, it will all be forgotten. Like it was times before.
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