Misogyny and its cause. (lobbyists, vote, Senate, laws)
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The history of our strength difference is vitally important.
You brought up rape. If men and women were more equal in terms of physical strength rape, of the type and kind you mention, would occur far less often. So axiomatically it matters.
For thousands of years at least men have been more responsible for dangerous work, war, home defense, hunting etc. I'd argue that is because men are stronger, less empathetic, more black and white thinkers, more competative etc. Genetic make up and testosterone are big players..........
When hours worked are accounted for and seniority metrics are even, job per job men and women make almost identical money.
You keep mentioning men, fear and hatred of women as if some large proportion of men fear and hate women. That's nonsense. It may be, however, that many rapists fear and hate women
So rapes occur because women cannot defend themselves? Men rape men, men rape boys. All men are not equal in strength. Men rape because they feel entitled to women’s body.
The labor department statistics do not support your imagined equality of pay. The work women do is undervalued so they make less money, less SS, and retire poorer than men do.
So rapes occur because women cannot defend themselves? Men rape men, men rape boys. All men are not equal in strength. Men rape because they feel entitled to women’s body.
The labor department statistics do not support your imagined equality of pay. The work women do is undervalued so they make less money, less SS, and retire poorer than men do.
Men rape more women than other men because they are more likely to be attracted to them. I think that's the most logical reason for that disparity. Relative strength is likely a significant factor but not the biggest one by a long shot.
I don't think most rapists treat other men with respect and decency.. They are probably just pieces of crap to everyone who has something they want and think they can get away with stealing.
So rapes occur because women cannot defend themselves? Men rape men, men rape boys. All men are not equal in strength. Men rape because they feel entitled to women’s body.
The labor department statistics do not support your imagined equality of pay. The work women do is undervalued so they make less money, less SS, and retire poorer than men do.
1. "Men rape because they feel entitle to women's body"........earlier you said rape wasn't sexual in nature. Anyway my sub-point was in part males raping females would occur much less often if the strength gap wasn't significant. I'm not sure who you could argue that point.
2. Post your labor department statistics and we'll work through them item by item.
1. "Men rape because they feel entitle to women's body"........earlier you said rape wasn't sexual in nature. Anyway my sub-point was in part males raping females would occur much less often if the strength gap wasn't significant. I'm not sure who you could argue that point.
2. Post your labor department statistics and we'll work through them item by item.
What part of what i said made you think rape is sexual? It is violence, an assault on a person. Rapes should not happen at all. Would you say there will be less murder if every were as strong as the strongest ma. It seems a ridiculous argument to. There will be less murder if people dont kill.
I will google labor dept stats when i have more time.
Men rape more women than other men because they are more likely to be attracted to them. I think that's the most logical reason for that disparity. Relative strength is likely a significant factor but not the biggest one by a long shot.
I don't think most rapists treat other men with respect and decency.. They are probably just pieces of crap to everyone who has something they want and think they can get away with stealing.
What do you mean by women's work is undervalued?
The argument is often that women choose to go into lower paid positions, but a lot of positions that are female dominated are low paying precisely because they are female dominated. For example, social work typically requires a graduate degree, yet the pay is abysmal. Teaching typically pays poorly in many states. A lot of health positions are physically intense- like being a CNA- and pay horribly. CNAs are 80%+ women. I know people who were teacher aides with people who had developmental disabilities and that was physically difficult as well. A coworker of mine quit as an aide because she was getting kicked/injured by children. She was a physically large woman too.
The question is why the positions listed above often pay less than other unskilled positions that men tend to do. Or why people focus on the hours a person is available to work as opposed to the productivity while a person is there. FWIW, my job focuses on productivity within a set day… and the highest performer in my office is a woman. I think #2 is also a woman who works part time.
I think that part of any pay difference between men and women is also, what someone mentioned upthread somewhere, women tend to think less of our own contributions and men tend to overestimate the value of theirs. I mean, if you compare how they would rate themselves and how they truly rank.
What that means is that men will negotiate for higher pay, ask for and go for more opportunities. Women may not. Right now, there is a promotion opportunity for me and I have to actually prepare a presentation and interview for it. I had to ask to be included in the candidate pool to begin with. Employers do not always just assign the value to their employees, sometimes we have to go and get it, not only with the actual work that we do but in asking for and negotiating for raises, promotions, and so on.
But that aside, I also have, for years, had the burden of care for people in my family who were not doing OK at taking care of themselves. If I consider my entire load of stress, effort, and responsibility...then ask me if I feel prepared to take on more stress, effort and responsibility in my job? I'm not real sure, honestly. And yet, numerous men in my life have essentially crumpled when expected to take on burdens of care for other people in our family. They have insisted that home life for them should be at least mostly, if not entirely, relaxation. So maybe they've got more bandwidth to give, professionally.
I just don't think that easy answers, even where data can be found to reference, are sufficient to really describe things as they have been. There are a number of influencing variables.
Also, if I can just say it, I LOVE....love love LOVE...how MillennialUrbanist showed up RIGHT on time, immediately after the post I made (parts of it totally with him in mind) to share his thoughts with us, about how women supposedly live life on "God Mode" or with the "cheat codes enabled." Hoo boy. It does not get more perfect. Thanks dude. I only wish I'd had notice that it would happen so I could have ended my post with, "Here is exhibit A:"
And Homina, you are completely right about society shifting the expectations of men in a rapid way that had to leave some heads really spinning. I think that our educational systems are failing kids, and they are failing boys in some really particular ways. We really need to find ways to acknowledge that not all kids have the same needs for the ideal learning environment, and if it's valid to say that the old way left a lot of kids behind, the new ways still are. It's definitely a problem.
So rapes occur because women cannot defend themselves? Men rape men, men rape boys. All men are not equal in strength. Men rape because they feel entitled to women’s body.
The labor department statistics do not support your imagined equality of pay. The work women do is undervalued so they make less money, less SS, and retire poorer than men do.
I guess the guestion with "entitlement" as an explanations is what created that social norm that has been fairly pervasive across all human cultures across time? That's in part where I think the physical imbalance comes into play.
I guess the guestion with "entitlement" as an explanations is what created that social norm that has been fairly pervasive across all human cultures across time? That's in part where I think the physical imbalance comes into play.
I think thre is so much bigger divergences than between men and women when it comes to imbalanced outcomes that are totally unfair at some level. there are differences between the problems men and women face in general. You could argue that women have a worse lot than men as a whole. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is then that's not fair.
But it's small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, it's just something that's easy to point at. Some people are born with incredible intellect and others will never be capable of feeding and bathing themselves. Some people are born deaf, some people are born beat ugly and others are born to be models. It's dumb luck that determines the vast majority of outcomes in our lives.
Now it's a different thing to say that a man and women who are born with the same capacity to do a given job (same luck except for gender) and that the man will have a better life because of being a man. I don't really believe that is the case. I'd like to see more evidence to this.
The reason I don't believe it is that it seems to imply that the global labor market is carrying all this baked-in misogyny that's not based on merit or capacity, only on bigotry. If that were the case it would necesarrily be ineffificent. It would be leaving massive amounts of money on the table for no reason other than bigotry. Most people, and even most bigots would not leave money on the table to perpetuate their bigotry. Because most people are not willing to do that, it would drive the ones who are out of business.
What part of what i said made you think rape is sexual? It is violence, an assault on a person. Rapes should not happen at all. Would you say there will be less murder if every were as strong as the strongest ma. It seems a ridiculous argument to. There will be less murder if people dont kill.
I will google labor dept stats when i have more time.
Do you have a proposed solution to your original question? What is your over arching argument and what do you want to see realistically happen? sincerely.
The argument is often that women choose to go into lower paid positions, but a lot of positions that are female dominated are low paying precisely because they are female dominated. For example, social work typically requires a graduate degree, yet the pay is abysmal. Teaching typically pays poorly in many states. A lot of health positions are physically intense- like being a CNA- and pay horribly. CNAs are 80%+ women. I know people who were teacher aides with people who had developmental disabilities and that was physically difficult as well. A coworker of mine quit as an aide because she was getting kicked/injured by children. She was a physically large woman too.
The question is why the positions listed above often pay less than other unskilled positions that men tend to do. Or why people focus on the hours a person is available to work as opposed to the productivity while a person is there. FWIW, my job focuses on productivity within a set day… and the highest performer in my office is a woman. I think #2 is also a woman who works part time.
Its just basic supply and demand in my opinion, if there is high demand for people looking for skilled workers from a small supply pool, those workers are going to be paid more.
Here in Australia a qualified trades person will normally be paid better than a standard UNI grad in most fields, however it certainly was not always the case, its actually a relatively recent phenomena.
The main reason for this in my opinion, is that the thinking that you need to go to university/college etc and get at least a graduate degree to succeed, together with a vast loosening of university entry requirements, leads to a huge glut of university graduates, and a complete lack of trades people.
The gender pay gap as measured by the feminist movement is more of a supply and demand issue in my opinion, than any underlying distrust/hatred of women.
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